896 Caroline Goodner:

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Caroline Goodner:

I don’t know if you’ve heard this yet, but one of the reasons that I think feminine health has been so underserved for so long is there’s been just a dearth of information and training in the medical community on women’s health, largely because women weren’t even included in clinical trials until 1993. I mean, crazy, right? It was all men before that, apparently. Like, the thinking back then was, well, women are too complicated with all their hormones and all that stuff going on.

Melinda Wittstock:

Women entrepreneurs are breaking barriers and innovating across all areas of women’s health, serving massive markets with products and technologies long overdue.  Caroline Goodner is one such pioneer, a serial entrepreneur busy changing the narrative around vaginal health, fighting against societal norms to promote open conversations about common conditions like bacterial vaginosis and genital herpes. Likely you’ve heard of one of her leading products, FemiClear, and today we talk about what it takes for pioneering women founders to revolutionize healthcare.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward as a five-time serial entrepreneur, so this podcast is all about catalyzing an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other. Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together and lift as we climb.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring serial entrepreneur who has innovated over-the-counter products to treat common vaginal health issues from yeast infections and UTIs to herpes outbreaks. Caroline Goodner is the CEO and founder of OrganiCare, best known for its FemiClear product, and as she shares today, the journey to get these much-needed products into the hands of women has been far from easy – whether lack of funding for women-led FemTech companies or challenges advertising on social media platforms.

Melinda Wittstock:

From founding and exiting a successful DNA Identification company early in her entrepreneurial journey to now growing the FemiClear brand, Caroline shares how she’s overcoming the barriers for female founders in the health sector – with valuable lessons on what it takes to scale and sell a business to the vital importance of mentorship and peer support.

Melinda Wittstock:

Caroline will be here in a moment, and first:

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Melinda Wittstock:

We all get bombarded with so many ads about erectile dysfunction but how many can you recall about vulvar and vaginal health? Turns out it’s pretty hard to get advertising placed if it concerns women, with anything mentioning our lady parts apparently classified by social media advertising algorithms as sexual content.

Melinda Wittstock:

That is just one of the challenges faced by women pioneering in women’s healthcare, and Caroline Goodner is a passionate advocate for changing the narrative. She believes overcoming the taboos to help women gain access to treatments for common conditions like bacterial vaginosis and genital herpes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Caroline Goodner and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Caroline, welcome to Wings.

Caroline Goodner:

Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here.

Melinda Wittstock:

I’m excited to talk to you because this whole industry in FemTech has really come up of late, and it’s an underserved market, and you’re talking about a vaginal health. Really difficult to advertise, difficult for people to talk about. Right? What’s that been like as an entrepreneur? Because, you know, entrepreneurship is challenging enough, but you’re making a market.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah. So, we’re wanting to shine a light on something that, you know, advertising platforms aren’t used to. And so, you know, they’ve been talking about erectile dysfunction on ads for many years. But mention the word vagina and you get banned or vetoed for your ads. So, it is difficult to do it. And it is also just something that people are not used to talking about vaginal health and some of these conditions, like bacterial vaginosis or genital herpes, God forbid, we’re trying to fight against that paradigm and get people talking about these really common issues that so many women have, and they’re just sort of suffering in silence and not knowing that there are better options out there that can kind of get people back to normal quicker. And that’s kind of the foundation of our brand. But really, it’s for me, and, like, the mission for me is to kind of help women with these really common.

Caroline Goodner:

You know, these aren’t life threatening issues, but they’re really problematic in terms of quality of life. Yeast infections, BV, genital herpes, UTIs. These are things that can sideline you, really take a toll on your mental and emotional health. And so, they matter, and we need better solutions for women, and nobody’s been talking about them. We’re trying to get the conversation started, so thank you for kind of helping us with this platform in which to talk about it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, it strikes me as somewhat ironic that it’s actually kind of in men’s best interests. Like, so when you’re battling with, say, Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or something like that, that flags your ad because it’s, I don’t know, like, its algorithms say, oh, my God, ‘vagina’. Oh, can’t, you know, talk about that? Like they think it’s porn or something like that. Like, when you have conversations with them, how does that go?

Caroline Goodner:

Well, the problem is you can’t have conversations with them. I mean, we. We love TikTok. We have, like, 380,000 followers on TikTok. And TikTok does not allow advertising of feminine health products. And we don’t know why. And there’s not a person that we’ve been able to talk to. We’re hoping that we can break through and get through to someone, but we routinely get ads that are rejected from meta.

Caroline Goodner:

There’s just, they’re algorithms. They’re not people. I don’t think, I mean, I think people obviously made the algorithms to start with, but unfortunately, these companies are so big that there’s not a reasonable, rational person you can reach to talk to about this is a healthcare product that we’re trying to educate women on how they can get past a healthcare problem. And, you know, and your algorithms are catching us in their net, and they shouldn’t.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, it’s crazy because it’s lost revenue for them. Hello? Yes.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah, I know.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s half the population of the world.

Caroline Goodner:

That’s right. That’s right. And I mean, you know, one of the, one of the topics that is now getting the attention it deserves is menopause. You know, it’s, and we don’t currently, like, we’re looking at menopause. We don’t have any products right now that are specifically for those symptoms. But I mean, the fact that, yes, half the population of the planet will for sure go through menopause if they reach a certain age. And that’s been a not talked about topic or health condition or life stage is crazy. But I’m glad that finally, now the conversations have started.

Caroline Goodner:

There’s, you know, there is advertising. I’ve seen about it. And so that’s, you know, we’re going in the right direction. It’s just amazingly slow.

Melinda Wittstock:

You know, podcasts are a great place to advertise because it doesn’t have that same issue.

Caroline Goodner:

That’s right.

Melinda Wittstock:

And you can tell a story and, you know, increasingly, well, thanks to my company, you can find the right audiences right where it’s going to resonate. So, it just seems crazy when, and it’s the same issue with venture funding, say, where literally venture funds are leaving money on the table by not funding things like this, I think that’s kind of improving. Where do you see the funding climate for women’s health and FemTech and whatnot at the moment?

Caroline Goodner:

Well, yeah, I was just at a FemTech conference a few weeks ago, and unfortunately, it isn’t changing very much. And it is very, very poorly funded. Feminine health companies are poorly, are just not well funded compared to other types of companies. Women led companies get a paltry few percent of all funding from VC’s. There are some good efforts, some beacons of light out there of often women starting funds for women led companies or for feminine health. There are some specific funds that are, that are earmarked for these target, you know, kind of startups, but they’re not that many.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, it’s crazy.

Caroline Goodner:

I mean, putting their money in these, you know, high potential, in my opinion.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, yeah, well it’s crazy too, because a lot of the female funds raise less money from LP’s as well. So, you have this kind of combat fact, right. You know, it’s crazy. I guess what this means then is that you, you know, you’re, you’re growing this company and you just have to be like all women, you just have to be better.

Caroline Goodner:

Yes, you have to work at it, and you do have to. I mean, again, like you, I’ve been an entrepreneur since my twenties and this is the fourth company I’ve run, third one to found or co found. It’s only been more recently that I’ve kind of really noticed. Maybe it’s because I’m now in feminine health and it’s been just striking how challenging it is and how even in 2024, we still haven’t seen the movement that I would have thought we would have seen in funding in kind of recognition of the success. I mean, if you look, there are some women that are really good true wealth ventures, I’ll mention them. They’re a fellow Austin-based company and a couple of really great women lead it.

Caroline Goodner:

And they cite a lot of statistics around kind of what the success is of women led companies and how it’s clearly statistically a better investment. And yet we’re still not seeing the follow on. But in any case, I could probably be on a soapbox for this, you know, for a long time. But, but at least we’re seeing a few little rays of hope and movement in the right direction again, like I said, it’s just kind of moving slowly.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s crazy because every single VC website that you would ever look at says, we’re looking for a big market. And it’s kind of like, hello, this is a big market and it’s a growing market, especially as women get more educated about their own bodies. But at the same time that all that, you know, that that’s true. We have a political assault on our bodies at the same time, you know, how does that impact you in any way?

Caroline Goodner:

Or is there, oh, my gosh, I’ll speak, you know, individually. I’m just kind of alarmed, appalled, you know, that, you know, that we’re going backwards in our rights. And I, you know, I kind of just have to speak because there are a lot of, there are a lot of really, really strong opinions about, you know, about the, you know, kind of reproductive rights issue. And, you know, so I do have my own strong opinions, and it’s a really tough topic because, you know, people, I’m in Texas, there are a lot of people that feel really strongly on both sides.

Melinda Wittstock:

That must be tricky to walk because this is an interesting thing in a political climate, too, of how an entrepreneur and a CEO walks that between who they need to be in their company and kind of who they are and what they believe. And, you know, in the industry that you’re in, given the climate that we’re in, is that challenging for you? I mean, how do you walk that?

Caroline Goodner:

You know, I mean, it can be. I have to be cognizant of the fact that I am not the sole owner. I have investors. I can speak as an individual, but when I’m representing my company, I’m representing a lot of people. And so that’s when it’s tricky. The things I stand for as the CEO of OrganiCare and the brand FemiClear, I can say we are doing what we, we’re doing everything that we can to bring better health, better options, natural, effective products that can help women get back to their normal selves. That’s what I focus on. We have disruptive technology that’s highly efficacious.

Caroline Goodner:

And I just try not to focus on those arguments that can’t be won because you’re not going to change. You’re not going to change people’s minds on certain topics. It’s a very deep-seated belief system that we have going there. But when it comes to educating women about broader options and how can I help you get healthier and stay healthier? That’s something that everybody kind of wants to talk about. Right. And I will say this like, one of the challenges, I think, at least in the feminine health space and vaginal health space in particular, is there are a lot of new products. And I love the fact that there’s a lot of new companies and new products in the feminine health space, period. I’m just really glad, no pun intended, I’m really glad that there’s, you know, there’s been an attention to an underserved market of women’s health needs, but, you know, when it comes to creating something that actually solves problems like infections, yeast infections, BV, herpes outbreaks, things like that, it’s difficult to find a product that really is effective and new.

Caroline Goodner:

And so that’s something that we’ve brought to the table that I think has helped differentiate us from some of the other companies out there that have more, like personal care products that are great to have and help you feel fresh and things like that. But they’re not necessarily effective or meant to cure an infection or treat.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. They sort of paper over the symptoms, but they don’t actually, you know, help.

Caroline Goodner:

I think that’s, yeah, we’re just. Yeah. Kind of making you feel. Yes. Making you feel better, but, but not necessarily attacking kind of the problem. That’s, that’s right.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. There’s a lot of confusion, I guess, in the marketplace, too, because, you know, what’s amazing is how many gynecologists don’t even know.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, traditional, and my father was a doctor, and traditional medicine, you know, kind of really reveres pharmaceuticals. And those have been studied in a way that’s, they’ve been trained as, you know, it’s kind of appropriate. And I’m all in favor of studies. A company like ours that has over the counter products, we’ve done our own studies. When you have over the counter products, you want people, women, to use the products as they would at home so that you understand what the results are when used as designed. Right. So, you know, somebody goes into the store, they buy a bacterial vaginosis FemiClear product, they take it home, they follow the instructions, and they use it.

Caroline Goodner:

They have two days of using this product intravaginally to treat their bacterial vaginosis infection. And what we found is 90 plus percent of them had relief within 24 hours and had all of their symptoms eliminated in two, three days. And so that’s the kind of data that we can report out. It’s not the same kind of study that a pharmaceutical would undergo because the pharmaceutical industry is talking to doctors, not to consumers. And so, but I love the idea of studies. You have to know, how does a product work on the issue that we’re talking about? And so that’s something that we’ve been able to do. Repetitively is conduct consumer studies with our products on women that have the conditions that we’re treating, and then they report back, what was your experience like? Did x, y, and z symptom? Did your vaginal odor go away? Did it get improved? Did the discharge diminish? How did you feel within 24 hours or 48 hours? And so we’re getting all that feedback from real consumers using the product at the time they have an infection. And that’s really valuable data, and it’s something that our other companies in the industry don’t do.

Caroline Goodner:

So that’s actually just one of our big, big points of differentiation is the consumer studies that we do.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Caroline Goodner:

Things that we found is the treatments for, like, I’ll stick with bacterial vaginosis because it’s the most common vaginal infection. It is a drug that is prescribed, typically called metronidazole, and it resolves 60% to 70% of infections. And in our study, again, not like a pharmaceutical study, but a consumer use study, over 90% of the participants said all of their symptoms were eliminated. So, you can see there is an efficacy improvement that we’re providing even over the prescription. We’re really excited about that. We like to be able to talk about what our consumers experiences are because we believe in data, we believe in the, in that kind of rigorous study of the products.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, you know, it’s interesting also from a marketing standpoint. It sets up the condition where your customers can become your best evangelists, you know?

Caroline Goodner:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

You know, they’ve had a good experience. They tell other women who tell other women and whatnot. And, you know, in a way, that’s ultimately a less costly way to grow your company. Better than advertising that kind of what you do?

Caroline Goodner:

Yes, absolutely. I mean, consumer reviews are really important. And when you’re dealing with an infection, I mean, obviously, you’ve already got sort of a compromised vaginal environment. What they say is when you’ve got one of these kinds of infections, you have, like, thousands of micro cuts in your vaginal tissue. I mean, that sounds pretty bad, and.

Melinda Wittstock:

It is pretty bad.

Caroline Goodner:

So, it’s an unpleasant situation to be in. It’s not fun to have to get treatment. But then when you get treatment, we provide relief. A lot of people have said they’ve tried lots of different things. Nothing has worked. Finally, FemiClear has worked. It works differently than the drugs that are out there, even prescriptive drugs. Plus, even over the counter drugs, there are other over the counter products for yeast infection that everyone’s very familiar with.

Caroline Goodner:

Monistat being the big one. And our FemiClear product just works differently in the way that it kills yeast. It kills a broad spectrum of different strains of yeast. And that actually makes it really work for most people that get yeast infections, and especially those people who get recurring infections, they really are getting to know what works, what doesn’t work. And it can be frustrating if you’ve tried something and you’ve tried lots of different things and nothing’s worked, and then you finally find something that does. And so, we hear about it. So those consumer reviews are very telling, and we like to, we follow those very carefully to get consumer feedback. And we listen to people.

Caroline Goodner:

When we need to make changes or pay attention to how people react to the product, we take action. And in fact, one of the things that had troubled us in the past is some of the consumer reviews talked about. Some people would experience burning. And again, back to the micro cuts in the vaginal environment. That can happen when you’ve got that sort of infected condition. But it still really bothered us. So, we’ve been working on new formulas and things like that. We actually have just launched a new product for BV and a new product for yeast that have a newer formula.

Caroline Goodner:

It’s a cream formula. And I’m really happy to say that we went from like 15% of people that experience some sort of side effect, like burning down to 2%. So, you know, just a much better consumer experience. And so, we’re really, we’re really excited that those have just launched online.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, what was it, Caroline, that got you into this and decide that you were going to go and create this company? I’m curious also about what it took to create the product.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah, so I would love to take credit for the technology, but it has nothing to do with me. One of my co-founders, a man in Italy, his name is Franco Papa. He has a company that was making this kind of what we call our substrate. It’s one of the key ingredients in our products. He was making it in Italy as a prescriptive selling through medical channels like hospitals for really severe chronic wounds in wound care, like diabetic ulcers and bedsores, and really large, difficult to heal wounds. And it was, you know, kind of miraculously healing these wounds that would not close. And part of it is that, you know, kind of the, you know, the key ingredient is you start with a very high medical grade organic olive oil, and we go through a process where we pump oxygen into it and the oxygen binds with the fatty acids in the oil. And it creates a natural peroxide.

Caroline Goodner:

And so, there’s oxygen in there, and there are peroxide bonds, which are highly antimicrobial. Everybody knows about their hydrogen peroxide. You clean a wound with that, but then it evaporates, and then your wound can get infected after the peroxide evaporates, when you’ve got an oil-based ointment, because after it goes through this process of being oxygenated, it goes from an oil liquid form to more of an ointment. When it goes through that process and you’ve got an ointment form, then it can really heal the wound, continue to deliver oxygen, which generates cell growth, and it remains antimicrobial. Our first product that we launched was under a different brand, Curozen, as a first aid ointment. We still sell Curozen. Um, and it, you know, it’s. It’s amazing.

Caroline Goodner:

It kills all kinds of bacteria, including even really antibiotic-resistant bacteria like Staph and E. Coli and MRSA.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, wow, that’s.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah, it eliminates all of those.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing.

Caroline Goodner:

Topically, again, it’s topical. And. And then we only learned because of Franco’s continued R and D working with doctors and hospitals over in Italy, they realized, hey, this might have applicability in women’s yeast infection. And sure enough, after doing some clinical studies, we found out that it did. And so that was our very first product that we launched under the FemiClear brand back in 2019, was our yeast infection treatment. And so, from there, two years later, we created our genital herpes outbreak, um, product, which, of course, there’s no cure for herpes. This just helps you get through an outbreak much faster. Some people have seven-to-14-day outbreaks.

Caroline Goodner:

This, you know, keeps it down to, you know, kind of like a two- or three-day outbreak or even could prevent a blister from even forming. Half of our participants in our study didn’t even get a blister forming when they used it at the first tingle.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing. I mean, because no one wants to admit it, but, like, a lot of people have that.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah. One in five women has. Has genital herpes. One in five.

Melinda Wittstock:

They’re all embarrassing to talk about. People don’t know so much. Like you mentioned, you have this, you know, huge following on TikTok. So, is a lot of your content really just about educating women completely?

Caroline Goodner:

Yes, absolutely. And that’s what we, that’s what, that’s what viewers, followers are interested in. They want to learn. And, you know, TikTok skews both younger and older, which came as a surprise to me, but for sure, you know, kind of the younger generation is consumed. They’re getting their information from social media. That’s where they get their information. We want to put good, solid, accurate information out there, and we do it. We’re really careful about how we generate content, and we do have content creators that we work with, but give them very clear guidelines on what’s true, what’s not true, what they can say and not say.

Caroline Goodner:

So, it’s a really fun, interesting platform to work with, but by far and away, the most engaging content is that which is educating and informing people about vaginal health issues. We also, we do plenty of content on vaginal issues that we don’t have a product for. So, we’re not just out there trying to get them to try our FemiClear products. We’re just educating on anything and everything that has to do with vaginal health.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Yeah, a lot of hormones and things come into it. Doctor Maria Uloko, who is a world-renowned urologist, but only one of four that’s really figured out vulvar health. She has a company called Vulva AI.

Caroline Goodner:

Oh, wow.

Melinda Wittstock:

And it was fascinating because she was just saying most gynecologists aren’t even trained in the health of the vulva.

Caroline Goodner:

Like, yeah, I’m not surprised. I’m not surprised. You know, one of the shocking things, I don’t know if you’ve heard this yet, but one of the reasons that I think feminine health has been so underserved for so long is there’s been just a dearth of information and training in the medical community on women’s health, largely because women weren’t even included in clinical trials until 1993. I mean, crazy, right? I mean, like, it was all men before that, apparently. Like, the thinking back then was, well, women are too complicated with all their hormones and all that stuff going on.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s just, our bodies are totally different. Like, I just happened to be, you know, scrolling through. I don’t know what it would flip board or something, and I saw this article the other day about, like, just even heart attacks, totally different symptoms in women. Like, just no knowledge about it, and I’ll date myself, but I remember I was really young, and my mom had this book, Our Bodies, Ourselves.

Caroline Goodner:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Which was, like, radical. Do you know, like, it was a book about women’s health. It was, like, literally radical.

Caroline Goodner:

Yes. Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Because nobody, like, you know, knew anything. It’s so good that you’re, you’re doing this work. I mean, really kudos to you and your team, you know, and all the other women who are in this space, because it’s vital and it’s a big market.

Melinda Wittstock:

You’ve done all sorts of other kinds of businesses, and you’ve had exits and whatnot. Tell me, let’s go way, way back in the way back machine. When did you first figure out you were an entrepreneur?

Caroline Goodner:

Oh, good question. In business school, oddly enough. So I went to college, got out of college, got a job at a big company, learned I did not like that. And I don’t know what it. I mean, it just was sort of a visceral, the sort of political aspects of it. It just wasn’t for me. I just didn’t work in that kind of environment. And so went back to business school after a couple of years working, and I went to Rice, and I had this wonderful professor, Ed Williams, that was my entrepreneurship professor. And the second semester of the class was all about building a business plan. And then you got together with teammates. Anyway, I built a business plan. The team joined my plan, then I ended up executing on that after after I graduated.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, wow.

Caroline Goodner:

And so, the first company I started was called Identigene, and I’m proud to say they still sell in drugstores. It was a DNA identification company. We started out doing paternity testing, largely, and then later got into forensic DNA testing, working with police, you know, in law enforcement agencies, defense attorneys, and whatnot. But that was a fantastic company. I loved every second of it, you know, really making an impact on people’s lives and doing something technologically disruptive. Completely disruptive.

Caroline Goodner:

It was a technology that was out of Baylor College of medicine, and my father was kind of led the lab at the time. So, it was insider information that I was able to leverage into a business, and that technology ended up being the technology used in the FBI CODIS database that’s still used today. Oh, amazing. So really, really a fun first at bat there with that company. And I ran that for a while, like 14 years.

Melinda Wittstock:

14 years, right. And then you sold it. Did you take a break or were you immediately your type of entrepreneur, like, you’ve got to be entrepreneuring?

Caroline Goodner:

Such a good question. I’d actually started another company within Identigene called Mendelworks. And we did because I was just looking at where can we expand? What can we do? And so, a couple of years before I started Mendelworks, and that was a genotyping of mouse tails for research scientists in the genetics field that were using animals in their research, and they have to breed them, and so they have to genotype every mouse. And so, we did that as a service. And what I realized after I sold Identigene, that was a good, long 14-year run, is I needed a break. I ended up kind of selling Mendelworks pretty quickly after identity and thought I wanted a break. And I did take a break for about eight months. I had two small kids at the time and kind of thought that this is what I want to be doing.

Caroline Goodner:

I’m going to spend more time with them. And after eight months, I was kind of stir crazy and realized this is not what I, that’s not my thing. I need to be working. And I was investing a bit. And one of the companies that I was really interested in and invested in, it was a company called Upspring Baby and got to know the founders really well, and they asked me to be CEO. So, it was kind of this roller coaster a bit from, because whenever you do exit, a lot of, I’m in an entrepreneur group and have been for a long time. And all my fellow entrepreneurs all say you need to take a break after you have an exit and wait and think about what you want to do next before you jump right into something else.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. That’s so true.

Caroline Goodner:

I cannot shout that loud enough.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. You know, that’s interesting because it’s kind of like a relationship you can have like a rebound thing where you jump into something in the, in the emptiness or there, maybe there’s some fear around that or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen people do that. I’ve seen myself be tempted into do, like just doing something for the wrong reasons because I, right between companies, because I haven’t just sort of settled, like, what do I really want to do. And there’s a bit of emotional recovery after…

Caroline Goodner:

I was about to say, it is so emotional. I mean, you know, that identity and company was my baby for 14 years, and so just. You don’t think of it. I don’t think of myself as, like, some emotional, histrionic person, and I’m nothing but just the act of going through that whole process, coming to an exciting exit. You got to just stop, and exhale and inhale and exhale again and just wait.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s incredibly emotional because it requires you to let go of something that’s so wrapped up in your own identity.

Caroline Goodner:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

I don’t know if it’s talked about enough, like, or even if entrepreneurs are aware enough as they’re getting to exit, as they’re thinking about exiting, or whether they even plan for, like, how are they going to handle that? In all sorts of ways. Not only, like, estate planning, tax planning, and all those sorts of things where all kinds of mistakes get made or, or, you know, making sure they’re getting the right price or the right terms or, like, earn out, you know, all that stuff is going on. But, but, like, how many people actually think about the emotional side of it?

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah, completely. I’ve been in a group, and I don’t know if you ever joined any, any peer group of entrepreneurs. I’ve been an EO entrepreneurs organization for a long time. And so, you know, we get in these groups once a month, like, smaller groups, there’s big chapter groups in the city, and then you get into smaller groups that you meet once a month and discuss different business or personal kind of stuff. But I’ve seen it over and over again where fellow entrepreneurs will exit, and there is conversations within our group. So, it’s kind of well known. You got to take a break. You got to take a break.

Caroline Goodner:

But I don’t know if there are entrepreneurs out there that are not part of a peer group, and they don’t get this kind of input or feedback. It’s not an intuitive choice to make.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s not. And it’s so critical to have that. I think women in particular can be prone to a little bit of isolation in this cause, like, we’re so programmed, heads down in the doing and all of that. And that if you don’t have mentors, coaches, networks, people that you feel you can talk to freely, that actually get you, that actually been there ahead of you and understand, right. We all need that so much like it’s. It’s really worth prioritizing. So, for anyone listening, that’s not in something like that…

Caroline Goodner:

The biggest gift you can give to yourself is to. Is to find, just like you said, it could be a coach, it could be a mentor, peer group, whatever. But, you know, someone or people that you can talk openly with that have experience in what you’re doing.

[PROMO CREDIT]

Wings of Inspired Business is brought to you by the new podcast, Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets. Join me together with Steve Little – serial entrepreneur, investor and mergers & acquisitions maestro – as we explore the little-known 24 value drivers that spell the difference between a $5m business, and a $50mm even $500 mm business. That’s Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets, produced by Podopolo Brand Studio at zerolimitsradio.com – that’s zerolimitsradio.com and available wherever you get your podcasts.

Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Caroline Goodner, co-founder and CEO of OrganiCare

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Melinda Wittstock:

My favorite question to someone who’s exited, and I’ll ask this to you as well. What would you have done differently looking back?

Caroline Goodner:

Oh, my God, so much. You know, in my first company, you know, I didn’t know to think about the exit earlier on. And so, you know, I was just going forward and with no idea, no thought about the exit. And I ended up, because I met my now ex-husband during the time I was growing the company and we lived in different cities, and I ended up moving to Austin, where he lived. And so, I was going back and forth, and that was really difficult. That was what really precipitated my interest in selling that company is it was just kind of an untenable situation. But I hadn’t really thought about the exit from the beginning. And I think that’s a really good thing to do.

Caroline Goodner:

It’s not that your foot’s out the door. It’s that you’re planning and trying to think, what might my future acquirer be interested in? Am I doing that? Am I creating a company that’s going to be super attractive to a number of different potential buyers? And thinking in that way is different than just thinking about who you are and what you’re doing. And you’re like, you know, you’re kind of trying to make yourself appealing and attractive to the market.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Well, here’s the thing that people confuse about strategically planning for an exit and actually exiting. Just because you’re doing that planning and you’re really thinking about the context of the market and where the value growth is in your company, who would want to buy you? But also, what’s your number? All these sorts of things don’t mean you have to sell, right? But you’re prepared. Like, I’ve seen in exits, just, like, one number wrong on the balance sheet or just like, one thing can, like, reduce the price significantly. Like, you know, do you know kind of what your tax situation is going to be like? You know all these things, right? There’s many of them as. As you get closer to it, but, like, just making sure that all those systems, all those things are just like, in place is really, really important. But actually, understanding the market that you’re operating in and, like, who could you advance with your business? Like, who would be interested and why, and what kind of value would they place on you? Right. But I think 99.99% of founders don’t think about that.

Caroline Goodner:

Right. No, you’re completely right. And that keep good records. It can’t be overstated. It’s definitely not my strong suit. But you got to find somebody in your organization that can do that really, really well, because you’re right. I think a lot of entrepreneurs get their story, their mission, the reason they started this. Most get that pretty well and do that pretty well because that’s in their heart.

Caroline Goodner:

Right. That’s why they, why they did it. But the, those, you know, kind of details of keeping records clean and clear and straight is such an important aspect, and it’s just easier to do it all along the way rather than, oh, I think I might be interested in selling. And now you’re trying to clean up years of messy, messy record keeping.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. Yeah, 100%. And so, what’s, you know, speaking of exits, then when you look at your current company and you have all these learnings from all the previous. Right. Like, it’s interesting. As a serial entrepreneur, I find this is like, I have cumulative learning. Right. Which is great.

Melinda Wittstock:

Which makes every next business, you would think, a little bit easier than last. Except it never is because there’s always different circumstances. You think, oh, I’ve got this now. Like, I know everything. And then there’s something from left field. So, you’re continually learning. So, there’s a couple questions in this. I mean, when you apply all that learning from all the other companies to where you are now, how much has that helped you and how much have you been surprised in your current, like, company in terms of what you’ve got to do, whether it’s preparing for an exit or growing the company or raising money or all the different things.

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah, that is a great question. I mean, there are times that I feel like, wow, I am the older, wiser entrepreneur now, and it feels great because certain things are just, oh, yeah, I know. That is, here’s what we need to do, just without a question. And then there are other things that are more subject matter related that now that I’m in this new business, in this new market, I don’t know, I need to go learn. I have a learning curve to get up on, you know, kind of what’s going on in my market. But generally, yeah, the confidence builds over time. So, there are a lot of things that you don’t look forward to about aging. This is one of those happy things about aging, is you do gather up some wisdom and experience along the way and decision making becomes easier.

Caroline Goodner:

Pattern recognition over, oh, what is this that I’m facing? I’ve been there, done that may not have been exactly what I’m facing today, but I know enough for my past to know, here’s what we need to go do. Resilience is a big key part of it. Knowing, you know, no, we’re going to live to fight another day, even though we had this massive setback, or whatever it is, which happens to every business. There’s so many, quote, kind of near-death experiences. Oh, my God. I don’t know how we’re going to get past it. Exactly. And you do.

Caroline Goodner:

And most of it is deciding you’re going to. Right. Yeah, that’s always a way. There’s always a way.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. I think that’s actually what you just said is so. It resonates so deeply with me, because I remember in my first business, every time there was a crisis, I mean, it literally felt like death. And then you. And then the next hour, you’d figure out a solution and you’d be fine. And it was like, it was crazy. It was sort of emotionally crazy in a way. And there was sort of a first-time founder kind of beginner’s luck thing that goes on too, right? Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

You kind of like it. You’re sort of saved by not knowing in a weird way. Right?

Caroline Goodner:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

But you learn all the things that could go wrong. So then in the second business, I’ve seen a lot of founders be a little more kind of either more resilient, but also a little bit less confident potentially as well. I hear you on that resilience, because there’s a million things that can go wrong.

Caroline Goodner:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

But whatever the nightmare du jour is, I sit there and I’m like, yeah, you know, okay, well.

Caroline Goodner:

We’ll be fine.

Melinda Wittstock:

We’ll figure it out. And I know that I can figure it out because I figured it out so many times before, but younger team members just remembering that they don’t know that they don’t have that, you know, they don’t have that muscle memory.

Caroline Goodner:

And what you said about luck is so true. We all need luck to happen sometimes, you know? But you’re right, especially for those that got hit with the lucky stick early on. I’ve seen them even be like, yeah, maybe they get less confident, but initially there’s some cockiness with, oh, I did it, I know what I’m, you know, and they don’t recognize that there was a lot of luck that played a role, and then they’re in more of a normal situation and everything doesn’t necessarily go their way. And then that’s, that’s probably when you’re, you’re talking about the, the confidence, like, takes a really big backseat.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. What you realize the longer you’re at this, you realize you could be humbled at any moment. Right. And so, to know the minute you start believing you’re invincible, usually that’s when you have some sort of challenge.

Caroline Goodner:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s very interesting, you know, from a mental and emotional health or spiritual growth, personal, you know, personal growth standpoint, whatever kind of language you want to put around that, that it is, I’ve just come to the conclusion this is all an inner game. Like, it’s all about your mindset in the end and how you handle the things that you can’t control. And I don’t know, entrepreneurs, if nothing else, are problem solvers. Right?

Caroline Goodner:

Like, that’s, that’s really right.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like what we do, we just go solve problems.

Caroline Goodner:

Yes, yes. But, you know, I do, I like what you, you know, you, you know, your profile online and everything and, you know, playing too small and the idea of being careful. It’s like to be an entrepreneur, you have to be willing to take some big risks. And yet we’re all, you know, we all, I think it’s a constant kind of tug of war between being, you know, leaning into risk and being risk averse and knowing when and how to, you know, what are the right kind of, quote, risks to take? What are the bold moves to take? And what are the, when is it time to pull back so that you don’t go over the cliff? And that’s a dance that I think is a tough one to learn.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s hard because you only know what you know at the time. And so, when you look back retrospectively with all your knowledge now, like, I’ll look back and I don’t, I’m not really a person that believes in regret because all these things were learning experiences and we’re good. But, like, I go back, and I think with all the knowledge I have now, it’s like oh, my God. What were you thinking? What did I do?

Caroline Goodner:

What was I thinking? But I, but I know. Yeah. Every step of the way, you did the best you could. I mean, I always had good intentions. Oh, you know, did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So, I mean, you know, it’s just, it’s a journey, you know, it’s a journey. So. So what’s next for you?

Caroline Goodner:

We almost never mentioned OrganiCare just because that’s the company name, but FemiClear is the brand. We really want to grow it. I think we’re at a nice inflection point. I think we’ve gotten a solid, you know, a solid foundation. We have solid distribution. There’s still plenty more distribution we could get. There are more products.

Caroline Goodner:

There’s more, you know, kind of more areas within feminine health that we want to tackle. And so, I feel like we’ve kind of come through, sort of come through the startup phase, and now I would say we’re more at a growth phase, and that’s an exciting place to be for me. I believe there’s a lot of potential in this company, and I want to see where we can go and how far we can go. Talking about the, you know, not having limiting beliefs, but also not being crazy. And so, you know, being at this place where we’ve got good infrastructure and we’ve come through, you know, some of those, like, risky times during a startup life, like, we’re profitable now, where, you know, we’re stable, and to be able to just sort of grow is such an exciting place to be. And I just, I just really, I would love to become a much more known brand, a known alternative, you know, whether people decide they want to, you know, go for natural, effective, or they like to stick with more of the tried and true that they’re used to, fine. I just want to, I want people to know that there are options out there for these, you know, conditions that are, that are, you know, often not well treated by what has existed prior to femur clear being on the market.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, 100%. That’s an exciting place to be. You’re right. There are a couple of exciting points. There’s the excitement of the start and all of that, and then there’s this kind of middle ground of adolescence that’s really kind of a little bit ugly and hard. Right. And then awkward. Awkward, right.

Melinda Wittstock:

And then once you hit that, you’ve got product market fit, you have loyal customers, you’re getting towards profitability, or you are profitable. That’s a nice, as you say, an inflection points where you can just really focus on growing. That’s a good place to be. So, Caroline, I want to make sure everyone knows how to find FemiClear. What’s the best way? What are the stores that it’s available on? Is it d to c as well?

Caroline Goodner:

Yeah. Yeah. So femiclear.com. We’re in Walmart, Walgreens, Rite Aid, you know, lots of regionals, Amazon, of course. So, you know, we can be found if you Google any of those conditions, you know, yeast infection, genital herpes, bacterial vaginosis, UTIs, we have products that can help either treat those infections or outbreaks or prevent them from recurring. So, for those people out there that have that struggle, especially with recurring infections and haven’t found something that’s going to stop them, finally give them a clear try.

Melinda Wittstock:

Amazing. Well, thank you so much.

Caroline Goodner:

Thank you. This has been so fun talking to you.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Caroline Goodner is the co-founder and CEO of OrganiCare, a leader in transforming feminine healthcare by making highly effective, natural products that are science-backed and available over the counter through national retailers under the brand FemiClear.

Melinda Wittstock:

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Melinda Wittstock:

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