933 Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Wings of Inspired Business Podcast EP 933 – host Melinda Wittstock interviews Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

We control the things we can control and what can control is making sure that they have a bulletproof business case and that they feel confident in their value, their product or service and are really tight on their messaging and who their ideal clients are and the process.  Like helping them ground in that is really powerful for creating a sort of buffer of zone or resilience to rejection. Or the actual things they can control which is, you know, that small pool of funding or VCs or you know, investors or folks who aren’t going to get it. The other part of it is looking for those people who are receptive to female founders who, you know, who is funding female founders who are other ways of growing their startup. Making sure that they’re sort of not just depending on outside funding. Bootstrapping, seed strapping, alternative methods that keep them more in the driver’s seat

Melinda Wittstock:

Landing venture capital investment isn’t easy for anyone, especially female founders of VC-fundable businesses, who receive less than 2% of all investments. This, even though a growing number of studies show that women-led businesses return 60 cents more on every dollar invested than men. That’s right; we’re a better investment. Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch is an advocate for women in entrepreneurship, challenging prevailing stereotypes and misconceptions about female business leaders. Nicole argues against the notion that women are inherently risk-averse or lack confidence compared to their male counterparts. Instead, she emphasizes that what is frequently labeled as risk aversion is actually a more calculated and wise approach to risk-taking. Today we talk about the funding disparity and what we can all do about it. 

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward as a five-time serial entrepreneur, so I started this podcast to catalyze an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other. Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together and lift as we climb.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who founded a business coaching business to help female founders succeed in building, launching and growing their companies. Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch is the CEO and founder of Hello Mayvn, drawing on 20-plus years
of working with startups, small businesses, and Fortune 500 clients to support women and under-represented groups in entrepreneurship innovating for social good.

Melinda Wittstock:

Nicole will be here in a start music GRADUALLY under my voice moment, and first:

[PROMO CREDIT]

Let’s get honest: Women founders face challenges men don’t. Less funding.
More juggling. Constant second-guessing. And a world that tells us to “play nice” and not ask for too much. Let’s stop playing small. If you’re feeling stuck right now — plateaued, under pressure, isolated, exhausted — I get it. It’s not easy leading a team or raising investment in a male-dominated space, navigating complex markets, AI disruption, economic headwinds all while balancing family, relationships, and your own wellbeing. But here’s the truth: The problem isn’t you. It’s that you’re trying to do it all alone. That’s a recipe for burnout, not breakthroughs. That’s why I’m inviting you to join the Zero Limits Growth Club. It’s led by VC investor and serial entrepreneur Steve Little, who’s built 6 of his own businesses to 9-figure exits, helped 470+ companies more than 20X their value, and now also invests in female-founded businesses. I’ve known Steve for a decade, and what I’ve learned from him along the way has been nothing short of transformational. Here’s what you get: A 24-Point Value Growth Assessment—custom-crafted for your business to uncover hidden risks and unearth hidden opportunities along with a custom Growth Strategy—built just for you and the impact you want to have on the world – all with monthly masterminds, office hours for real-time decision-making, Steve’s personal guidance and access to bold supportive founders like you, plus allies and investors. So, if you’re waiting for the “perfect time” – spoiler:  it never comes.

This is for women who are done with guesswork, isolation, and being underestimated.

Because you deserve more than a seat at the table. You deserve to OWN the table.

Check it out at growthclub.zerolimitsventures.com and hope to see you on the inside.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we talk about the myths and biases women entrepreneurs often face when growing their businesses—especially when it comes to raising capital. Many male venture investors have the misconception that women are risk adverse or lack the confidence to build big scalable businesses. That’s one reason why VC remains a tough terrain for female founders, with less than 2% going to female-led startups.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s a stereotype belied by the actual numbers, because numerous studies show that female founders actually return 60 cents more on every dollar invested—and better yet, more than 90% of startups with a female founder actually live past the critical 5-year mark. Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch says women bring a more calculated approach to entrepreneurial challenges, and never promise more than what they know they can deliver with 100% certainty. And because most male founders tend to overexaggerate their projections, VCs tend to discount every projection model they see, having the unforeseen consequence of making male investors think their businesses don’t have unicorn potential—when they do.

Melinda Wittstock:

Nicole and I talk about what it takes for women to have the confidence to change the power dynamics of the investor pitch, tackle unconscious male biases in the questions we get asked, and how to build confidence and resilience in the face of scrutiny and rejection. We also talk about what it really takes to scale a business.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Nicole, welcome to Wings.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Thanks for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:

You’ve worked with many female-founded companies as a coach and I just want to get straight to what are some of the myths that, that, that society has about female founders?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I think there’s so many and they really can be very harmful. I think one of the biggest ones is that women are risk averse or that they are inherently less confident or need more training than other types than male entrepreneurs. I found that this is generally not necessarily the case. What’s framed as being risk averse is often just a more calculated approach to risk. So, to me that’s actually wisdom rather than aversion. And with confidence I don’t see a lack of confidence. What I see is there’s generally less investment. I mean the numbers bear it out.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

There’s less investment and less openness and more scrutiny for female entrepreneurs. And so, when you’re sort of constantly under a microscope that leads to a sort of internalization of this narrative that doesn’t really bear out. It’s not really going to serve the founder. A lot of this, some of this is based on personal experience. But my graduate thesis at NYU was on barriers to women’s entrepreneurship. So that encompassed a 30-year literature review plus qualitative and quantitative research speaking to female business organizations, female business leaders, entrepreneurs. And that really showed that the biggest barriers are more the hard barriers, access to credit, resistance in terms of lending and funding rather than some of these softer barriers that are often pushed that women need to fix themselves in order to be worthy of this entrepreneurial journey that they’re on.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, I mean because women are so, so much more prone to kind of internalizing some of this stuff and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. Like it’s interesting if we just pick up on the funding question, right? That number of less than 2% hasn’t changed in, in 30 years for you know, VC funded female startups. And there’s so much unconscious bias and to the extent to which you’re aware that you’re experiencing that or not let alone how to counter it. Well, the data bears out that women do better than men. Like the hands down like return on average $0.60 more on every dollar invested. Right. So, there’s disconnected perception there.

Melinda Wittstock:

What are some of the things that come up when you’re working with those founders to, to, to combat not only the myths that they’re, you know, that are holding them back from sort of the external imposition of that on them, but also what’s going on, you know, in their own mindsets about success and growing their businesses.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were talking about awareness being one of the biggest pieces of that. So, helping them be really open eyed about what the landscape is and why and making sure that they understand that it’s not, it’s not them, right, or not completely them. We control the things we can control and the things we can’t. And what can control is making sure that they have a bulletproof business case and that they feel confident in their value, their product or service and are really tight on their messaging and who their ideal clients are and the process, that sort of business process, like I almost think of it as like the foundation or those roots.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Like helping them ground in that is really powerful for creating a sort of buffer of zone or resilience to rejection, right. Or the actual things they can control which is, you know, that small pool of funding or VCs or you know, investors or folks who aren’t going to get it. I mean the other part of it is looking for those people who are receptive to female founders who, you know, who is funding female founders who are other ways of growing their startup. Making sure that they’re sort of not just depending on outside funding. Bootstrapping, seed strapping, alternative methods that keep them more in the driver’s seat.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, there’s a lot of things to break down there. One thing that is interesting to me is the awareness to which women are aware or know how to combat the unconscious bias they face. Whether they’re, you know, pitching kind of a B2B solution to a Fortune 500 company and trying to win the sale or whether they’re raising money from an angel or a VC, because there are all these studies that, you know, women tend to be asked questions that put them on the defensive, like how they’re going to minimize risk, whereas men tend to be asked how they’re going to maximize growth. To what extent are women aware of that? How should they become aware of it? And what’s the best response, you know, when you’re conscious that that’s actually happening to you?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I’ve seen that too, that study that you’re referring to, or maybe it was an article about the different types, how bias shows up, and the different types of questions women are asked when they’re pitching. And one of the things we do is practice and prep. And I don’t know if this works. This would work for all women. This is sort of my style. And what works for the founders who work with me, that preparation and practice and rehearsal sort of, it just builds confidence. It not only builds confidence, but it builds the muscle of being able to be more comfortable with responding. So, I think part of what happens is that we’re put back on our heels in the moment, so we don’t have a response ready, or we’re not necessarily prepared to pivot, to reframe, take control of the conversation and sort of frame our own story in that moment. So, the more we practice it before we get in the room, the more comfortable we’re going to be doing it. I do think a lot of it is a muscle that, that, you know, once you’re, once you’re aware of it, you have to train for it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. You mentioned reframing. Interesting. So, say, let’s just pick that example. Say someone says something like, look, it looks like your cost of acquisition is, is too high. Right. It may be that they’ve completely ignored the fact that the growth totally justifies it. And they’re just looking at something, whereas they might have asked the man, wow, that growth is really exciting, you know.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, take me through how you do that with your clients. Like the, the types of questions that would put them on the defensive and knowing those in advance and say, turning it around.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Actually, I like the one you just gave where they’re like, oh, well, you know, your cost of acquisition is really high. And you know, I, it depends. You kind of have to read the room. And that’s one of the other things I talk about with my clients. Like, is this the type of person where just confronting that head on and saying something like, oh, interesting, you point that out. The way we see it is we’ve got this really exciting growth and there’s this huge return on investment here. Let us show you our data or let us show you why that’s not a problem.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, exactly.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

And that’s a really sort of assertive way of going into it. If that doesn’t match the founder’s personality type or it doesn’t match the room that they’re pitching to, there may be, I don’t want to say softer, but a slightly less head on way of getting to it where, you know, although I don’t usually tend to advocate that, you can tell that I’m struggling to even find a way because I would just probably approach it head on.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. I mean, there’s all kinds of ways this shows up. Like, I’ve done countless pitches over the years and like, you know, the one that irritates me the most is when that there’s some guy who just like interrupts your, interrupts you every, every third word or like every sentence to ask a question that you’re only like two minutes into the pitch, like you’re gonna be dealing that one. Or like I’ve had, hey, you know, this is really interesting. I’ll ask my wife. It’s like, oh, so your wife’s an expert in AI really?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Okay, I like that. Actually, I like that other, that example you just gave too, where they’re interrupting you the whole time. Again, one of the things I talk about with my founders a lot is taking control of the meeting or having, or setting, setting the stage to, I shouldn’t say have control, but the power dynamics of meetings. And I see a lot of this, it’s similar to me, pitches are similar to business development or doing sales. You have to figure out what objections you think you’re going to get and be ready with responses to handle them. And similarly, when you go into the room, you want to try as much as possible to set the terms of engagement. So if one of the terms of engagement you’d like is for people to hold questions until after you’re done, you put that out there right away before you start your pitch. You know, like, hey, you know, thanks so much for listening.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

This is really fast. And if you don’t mind, I want to make sure I show you everything you need to hear and when I can take questions after the pitch or, you know, something more eloquent than that. But that’s sort of off the cuff.

Melinda Wittstock:

It is the power dynamic though, isn’t it? Right. And it’s setting, you know, in a way that is graceful. You can even do that in a soft power sort of way, but, like, do it nonetheless. So, these are all the skills that so many women need to learn. And I think often, I think it’s getting better than it was.

Melinda Wittstock:

My first business was 2002. There was no big entrepreneurship industry. You were just flying blind. Right? So, like, you just keep making mistakes without having any idea of, like, what you’re up against. Now there are so many more resources and groups and ways to get support, and learn these things. When your clients come to you, what generally are the biggest challenges that they’re facing and working on beyond the ones we’ve discussed?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I mean, aside from the obvious of getting that, those, you know, those initial customers, like growing that customer base and getting traction and funding, what I would say it really is, is sales and, and understanding how to do sales. You know, business development, the real nitty gritty, like being okay with going into a room and giving that big pitch. Let me back up, because my founders tend to be pretty sophisticated, so they’ve already hit a point where they’ve had a certain amount of success. What nobody tells folks is that it doesn’t necessarily get easier. It becomes, you know, as you pitch bigger accounts, as you scale, as you want to go into a new market, it becomes almost more nuanced and more sophisticated. So, it’s almost like an athlete. You’re always having to refine, tweaks up your game, build on those skills. So that’s kind of more where I come in rather than I do get newbie, like, you know, really new raw founders. I mentor young founders, but for the most part, even they are really sophisticated.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I think back to when I was running, and you just want to shave like, 10 seconds off of your time or something like that. It’s like that 80, 20. So you’re now putting in the 80% to get that 20% lift, if that makes sense.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as I You know, the other really interesting thing, I think for founders, whether they’re male or female, is the changing role as the CEO and the founder of the company as the company grows. You know, you kind of start out with, you know, doing everything right and maybe kind of controlling everything. And you have to, as you build a team that brings whole new challenges and just a different kind of apportionment, I guess, of your time and your focus and such. And I mean, who you’re being at each stage of the company is a little bit different. So, what are some of the challenges in those, in those transitions? Do a lot of women struggle with the kind of letting go part, like being able to, you know, trust team members and, and, and such in, in, in running, you know, as, as, as folks start to scale?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

It depends. I do have one, one team that I’m working with right now that I’m thinking of that, that really does have trouble with letting go. Or not so much letting go in the day to day, but more envisioning what it’s going to look like when they start stepping back more from their company or even an exit. So sometimes I find that talking through the future, it’s sort of this exercise where we’re zooming in and zooming out all the time. So, when we zoom out to talk about the future and you know, what does it look like when your company, you know, when you grow your company to a certain size or scale. What, let’s talk about what your role might be. What, what would it look like if you sold your company or stepped away from it completely. And again, part of that is getting comfortable with the idea of change or the, or the, you know, change potential, let’s say long before it actually, not long before, but significantly before it’s actually happening.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

You know, again, it’s a little bit about practice. I mean, I, I don’t mean to.

Melinda Wittstock:

Be knowing and knowing what you, and knowing what you actually want.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, because, you know, a lot of, a lot of founders, a lot of people generally go into life, whether it’s a career or as an entrepreneur with this idea of what they think they should want and it’s not necessarily what they actually want and they don’t actually necessarily know. So how do you help with that? Like, I just, with, even with things like, you know, we’ll get to exits in a moment because that’s a whole emotional feel. Right. But you know, do they want to grow a billion-dollar business? Do they know what that actually means or do they want like a lifestyle business What. What is their life like? What type of leader do they want to be? Are they a starter that should just be starting things and moving on, sells as a CEO, or are they equipped to grow and do the whole journey? Most people don’t really know. I don’t think most people actually really know that.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Yeah, they may not, but we kind of tease it out together. And that’s where the trust comes in in a relationship. If you’re working with an advisor. Well, and actually, ideally, they have lots, a good number of advisors, you know, a coach, strategist, whatever. They have people around that they’ve built a team of people around them who they do trust that they can bounce those ideas around with.

[PROMO CREDIT]

Eight years ago, I started this podcast because I wanted to help women succeed as entrepreneurs. Over the years, I’ve driven more than $10 million in sales to the women I’ve featured on this show, and this year I’ve taken my investment in female founders to a whole new level as a venture partner of the new firm Zero Limits Capital, where we’re dedicated to investing in highly scalable seed stage startups founded by women and diverse teams. We’re looking for mission-driven innovators with exciting new applications of AI, Blockchain and other emerging technologies that make a social and sustainable impact to change the world. If this is you, please take a moment and tell us about your opportunity at bit.ly/ZLCintake – that’s bit.dot.ly/ZLCintake – capital ZLC lowercase intake. 

Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch, CEO and founder of the business coaching business Hello Mayvn.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I liked what you were saying before about, you know, how. How do they even know that they have to know what they want, but sometimes even when they know what they want, it’s still hard to let go. It’s almost like a parent, you know, the parent says that they want to raise this kid to be independent and spread their wings and succeed without them. But when the. When the time, you know, gets closer to actually letting go, it becomes difficult because letting go means you have to do a little bit of redefining of who you are in your business, at least. And you have spent so as a founder, you probably spent so much time and energy building this thing. You know, late nights, sacrifices, all of this, you know, this intensity and focus. And so now you have to start to imagine or pull back or put that energy somewhere else.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

It’s really difficult. I keep thinking of this one, with this one team that I’m working with, where they know that they want. They keep saying that they want to. This thing to reach a point where they can step back and be really hands off. But a lot of times, as things are happening on their journey that are bringing them closer to that, there’s a little bit of gripping or trying to hold on, and we just have. We just have to talk through it. You know, you kind of almost have to do a little reminder like, hey, this is what you said you wanted.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

This is what that looks like, and this is what that means, you know?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, exactly. Well, just even, you know, making your first hires and all of that, I found over the years, a lot of the women I’ve mentored can often be a little too slow to hire for sure. Back to what you were talking about, about the. This. This myth of risk adverse.

Melinda Wittstock:

And, and sometimes it’s literally like, I am going to be very careful about, you know, the money and not overextend and that kind of thing. But sometimes that can mean if you’re looking at hiring only as an expense rather than an investment, there can be a lack of consciousness of, okay, if I hire this person, what’s the return that this person is going to bring? And men do this too. They hire just to hire. Like, okay, this person’s gonna do this thing, but without a consciousness of this person is going to come in and return this, and this is what it’s going to mean to the bottom line of the business, this person is going to allow us to grow. Right. More of an investment. Is there, is there a mental or a mind shift set that you find in shifting that from thinking of, say, hiring as an expense versus an investment.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

For sure. I think a lot of that. I’m thinking of one founder in particular, in particular, who I work with, who is like a superhero of delegating and hiring. And I think a lot of that has to do, in her case, with the professional background that she had before she decided to go out on her own, which was on the operations side. So, she was really keyed in to the value of streamlining getting your operations right, having the right team, being able to delegate and working in the. You know, I know people use this, you know, the phrase zone of genius, but we’re working in the space that makes the most sense, where she should be as a founder. Whereas other women I work with who maybe have not had the experience of delegating a lot, for them, it is, it can be more difficult. Not because they’re necessarily averse to delegating, but they may not know where the most ROI is going to come from, like which things to delegate and which things to delegate right now make the most sense for their business.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

So that’s sometimes a thing that we untangle together, even in terms of budgeting. Like, what stuff does it make sense to spend money on as you’re growing, you know? So, yeah, I think a lot of that is informed by what their professional experience has been up to the point when they become a founder and how.

Melinda Wittstock:

How fluent, you know, so hiring, doubling down on your strengths and hiring your weaknesses in, in effect. Right, yeah. But also trusting people that you hire. So sometimes it’s tricky because sometimes you can make a bad hire, right? Or, the onboarding or the kind of mentoring or the clarity is not there so, or, or the founders being a little too controlling or micromanaging of that person. So, when you’re advising people of that stage of growth, right where okay, so you, you, you’re growing, you’ve got traction, you’ve got revenue, it’s time to scale. How do you get that right? How much of your time actually as a coach in that area?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

That’s, that’s not the biggest because my founders still tend to be fair at least like early stage. But I have gone into companies that are already like large companies that are established and they’re looking to reorganize or pivot and then that, but still becomes a similar type. Hiring is just really hard I think for critical for mission critical sort of positions that, that’s part of it like defining how, how mission critical these hires are, knowing exactly what you, what you want to have them doing. Scoping the job correctly is a big one. I see, what I see most of the time is a mismatch. The, the founder is not necessarily someone who has experience in HR or hiring right. Like getting the title wrong, getting the job responsibilities wrong or I shouldn’t say wrong, but sort of a mismatch.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

And that’s really where I come in and, and be like okay, hey, what you have here is really two or three different positions or this is a nice to have, not a need to have or you know, just that earlier part of the process. And also, to your point, they need to be set up for it. You need to be set up to train and oversee and manage people and set them up for success. Because anyone even, even the best person can be a bad hire if they’re not being trained or onboarded or supported.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, it’s, that’s the most delicate phase of a company. Like you know, so say there’s, you know, there’s one of you and then there’s three of you, and then there’s five of you, and then suddenly there’s like, oh, my God, there has to be 25 of you. Right? Like that, that’s, that’s where it’s crazy. A lot of companies just don’t have the onboarding or the systems set up and, and, or the founder thinks, ‘everybody on my team is going to be able to read my mind’.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I think personally, one of the best ways, I think, to handle it is if you’re at that stage where you need to do, like you were saying, a lot, a lot, you know, hire a lot of people quickly is to have someone at a high level on your team who has the depth of expertise to do that well and not have the founder do it, per se. Yeah, I think that is one way to do it. Or to work with a vendor, a partner, and develop a really good partnership with them, who you can trust and develop that relationship early on, whether it’s a recruiter or an agency or what have you. Even though I know that that can have its own expense to. Depends. All of this depends on what stage the business is at and how much Runway they’ve got. But I would really say as much as. Even if you have to bring in a consultant to help you get that first batch or scope it out, it’ll probably be worth it.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Personally, I’ve made my share of mistakes too, in this area. For example, thinking that a person who’s junior could handle a little more, that was, that was a really big mistake.

Melinda Wittstock:

We talk about this podcast all the time that like, failure is part of the process, but failure is really an opportunity to learn. Right? So, like, you’re going to make all these mistakes and, as much as we tell ourselves it still feels bad like when you make a mistake. And I think we still do beat ourselves up sometimes, right?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I think it feels bad only when we make the stakes too high internally. Like, the voice in our head makes the stakes really high. Whereas if you approach it like, hey, okay, this is an experiment, or this is a Test or, you know, when you have a beta of something. I’m trying this out; I’m trying this person out. And, you know, you kind of want to try and take some of the, I don’t know, I want to take some of the emotion out of it. Right. It’s, it’s not that different from anything else in, in business. It’s, it’s like, we’re going to test this out, we’re going to test this person out.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Maybe they won’t work out. Maybe that’s not the right position. Whatever. That’s how it goes. You have super experienced people, recruiters, and people who hire all the time, and sometimes it doesn’t work out, and that doesn’t necessarily mean you even did anything wrong. Maybe they don’t like the job. Maybe they’re not a good fit for it after all. Maybe your needs change because the business is changing so fast.

Melinda Wittstock:

And I like that. The way literally we were talking earlier about framing a conversation with a VC or a potential buyer of your product or your service. Something here, framing it like, like, look, this is a new feature we’re building on our app, or we think we’re gonna expand our social media presence onto YouTube. Let’s test that out. Right? But then figuring out, okay, well, what are the metrics? How will we know we’re succeeding or not? 

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Well, we’re almost reframing it in the conversation that we’re having with ourselves in our own heads, you know, and we’re making space to breathe. To me, it’s very hard to grow and get better if you’re constantly stifling your own growth by being afraid of making a misstep.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, Exactly. Yeah. No, that’s, that’s very, very true. So, so tell me a little bit about your role and how you approach coaching with all these companies. Because you’re acting. Are you sort of like a fractional person almost on their team or how do you just, how do you work with all these founders in practice?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I, I have to be honest. Originally it wasn’t my intention when I started to necessarily be fractional, but the way things have evolved, it is, I am more like a fractional person on their team. And part of that was my own learning. Early on, I tested. You might appreciate this. I Tested something like five or seven different ways of working with different clients. I split test them and then I got feedback to see what, you know, I did my own kind of self-audit, but I also observed and sort of post mortem what was working with them. And you know, the response I got was that they wanted more of this fractional type of person, at least when they were working with me.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

And what that means is we have an initial sort of meeting to see if there’s business chemistry and then if they decide to work with me, there’s a discovery process I do with them. It’s pretty streamlined, that looks at all the different aspects of their business, where they’re starting from, where they want to go and what they have in place to get there. And we, we go from there. You know, we define some initial goals. Sometimes they’re short term, sometimes they’re long term, sometimes it’s a mix of both. I really adapt to them and their business because startups are just kind of in this constant state of flux. I call it semi-structured. You know, there’s enough structure to make them for there to be a safety net, so to speak, but there’s enough flexibility to be able to move with them and their business.

Melinda Wittstock:

And every business, every business is different. So how do you see the future for female founders at this particular moment in time? And I, I’ll contextualize that in, in that, you know, I see tremendous energy and women doing incredible things. But do you see the funding climate changing or do we have some headwinds too? Just in terms of the administration we have here in the United States that seems to be moving. All references to women and diversity and equity from every single government, even the word female from government. What does that all mean for all of us?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

You know, I think we do have headwinds, but the headwinds are nothing new. The only positive I see out of that is that at least it’s not subtext, it’s out in the open and clear.

Melinda Wittstock:

I suppose so.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

I’ve been like so shocked by some of the stuff like literally National Science Foundation removing the word female. So, like if you apply and somewhere for a grant, say for a National Science Foundation grant, and it’s female somewhere as in your application, like it’s, it’s like nuked. I mean it’s not even in the mix anymore. It’s crazy.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

I think a lot of these organizations are responding both out of fear and also just in their own for the, they need to survive in order to keep doing the work they do and supporting the folks that they give grants to. So, I don’t want to kind of judge them too harshly. I think. I do think it’s a tough environment right now and we’re going to have to get creative. Whether that’s grants, grants, government funding, whatever. You know, we’re all going to have to maybe go back to the drawing board. And it speaks to being intentional about sort of the revenue model or the funding strategy that a founder or startup has and trying to make sure that we’re diverse, you know, diversifying those streams to the extent we can.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s especially concerning like just the capital markets even have really dried up. There was something like 2000 venture capital funds firms that disappeared last year. So, the funding climate is difficult. The political climate is potentially difficult. It’s hard to know how you position yourself and sell into that as a woman.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, it does require a little bit of a rethink. Are your clients kind of concerned about this does come up in conversation. Is there any change required in terms of how we approach markets?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

It definitely comes up in conversation. There is a change in how we. Not only how we. I wouldn’t say so much how we approach for. For me and my clients, what we’ve changed is who we approach.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. To the extent it is definitely a polarization going on. Right. Because I think there are VC firms, there are people who really do still support women. Right. It’s kind of like a parting of the. See, maybe it’s sort of like. It’s just more clear who’s on what side.

Melinda Wittstock:

Maybe. I don’t know.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Yeah, I mean I think we’re just in a really tough moment and we’re going to have to be creative and we’re going to have to support each other as much as we can. That that might be like micro lending, you know, crowdsourcing, more family and friends raising. The problem is that the economic situation is in flux. Also, you’ve got this disinflation, you’ve got uncertainty in the markets. You know, people are feeling the instability and sort of uncertainty and chaos of the moment.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. So, for any business, large or small, it’s like, where, where do I invest? Where what do I do? Or if you have a DEI policy or you’re inherently DEI…

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Exactly. Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

What do you do? Like what it’s been fascinating watching say, the difference between say Target and Costco where Costco’s actually increased its value. It’s doing much, much better because it, it, it kept its DEI policy, it’s actually grown, its stock price has done well, whereas Target got rid of their DEI policy and its stock has tanked.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Right. Yeah, no, I’ve been watching this too, I think. And again, part of it for, for the founders I’m working with mission. Their mission is central to what they’re doing. So, they’re not going to start backpedaling on that.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, this is interesting because I find that female founders are more likely to do social impact business. Like we tend to be more mission driven entrepreneurs generally. Right. And so how does that impact me? Is that potentially an advantage? Because if, okay, so the government’s not doing it, so it’s like up to us or whatever.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Right? Well, actually, great point because there’s a state that I’ve been working with or a chamber in a state that I’ve been doing some work with. And what happens is just because federal government’s not supportive doesn’t mean local government doesn’t still want to do these things, whatever they are, whether they’re behavioral health or substance misuse or climate, you know, climate tech, education, innovation and education. So in a lot of ways, I think there’s going to be a shift. It may not happen immediately because I don’t think people were necessarily prepared for this.

Melinda Wittstock:

A lot of it was shocking actually.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Yeah, I don’t think people were prepared for this. But I think one of the consequences is that states, startups, small, medium, small medium businesses are going to start looking for ways to be more self-sufficient, whatever that means. I, I don’t have a magic answer like I’ve, I’m still puzzling like you know, piecing this together in my own head and talking it through with colleagues and my founders. But you know, the mission stays the same. We’re not, we’re not going to be moved off of it. Not, not me in terms of the people I serve, which tend, by the way, not only to be women, but tend to be black and brown women. So underrepresented, historically underrepresented represented, marginalized founders. That’s who I’m there for.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

And we’re not stopping; we’re not going to stop the work. We’re just going to have to find more creative ways to get it done. I don’t know exactly what that looks like, but we’re going to keep going.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, it’s the only way, so. Oh my goodness. I could talk to you for a lot longer, Nicole I want to make sure that people know how to find you and work with you, assuming you have capacity. I know you work with, you know, a dozen companies at any given time, but. But you do some one offs and things like that. What are the type of clients that you’re looking for? And. And if anyone’s listening to this that could really use your help, what’s the best way for them to find you?

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

The best way to find me is either on my website or on LinkedIn. It’s hello Mavyn.com and it’s Mavyn with a Y, M, a v y n. LinkedIn. I’m really easy to find and I do a complimentary strategy session to see if there’s a fit. And if there’s a fit, we move on from there. On demand. Clients are always welcome. You know, they can talk with me for an hour about a specific business problem that they’re noodling, or I do have a few slots for a long-term engagement.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Maybe one or two slots open right now.

Melinda Wittstock:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch:

Oh, thank you, Melinda. You’re a pleasure to talk to.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Nicole Spiegel-Gotsch is the CEO and founder of the business coaching business Hello Mavyn

on a mission to help female founders succeed. 

Melinda Wittstock:

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Melinda Wittstock:

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