963 Celi Arias:

Wings of Inspired Business Podcast EP963 – Host Melinda Wittstock Interviews Celi Arias

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Celi Arias:

You know how people always say, show me, don’t tell me.  What I created was a methodology that would literally visually show you where you are blind, because it then it makes it easier to really see it for yourself. So, I created the Grown Ass Business Method. What it ultimately does is it shows you the key responsibilities of the six growth engines in your business, and it lays it all out on a dashboard so you can see each growth engine and how each growth engine is performing. 

Melinda Wittstock:

Every would-be entrepreneur hears the same advice: Follow your dreams and double-down on your strengths. But many overlook the rest:  Hire your weaknesses. The result? Founders who think they can scale into the 7-figures by doing more and more of what they are already doing. Celi Arias is the founder of the Grown Ass Business—a coaching company that helps entrepreneurs break the cycle with repeatable systems and mindset shifts that get them past what she calls “the messy middle” where founders feel stuck.

Melinda Wittstock:

Happy New Year everyone. If you’re like me, you probably felt immense gratitude in saying goodbye to 2025, and this year promises its own roller coaster ride, so I’m looking forward to getting through it together, with you. I’m Melinda Wittstock and this is Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward as a five-time serial entrepreneur, so I started this podcast to catalyze an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other. Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together and lift as we climb. If you like what we’re about and you enjoy learning from this podcast, please take a moment, subscribe to the feed so you never miss an episode and give us a 5-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an independent show, so we need your help to beat those algorithms. Thank you—it means a lot.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur whose business journey is grounded in learning by doing. Celi Arias is the CEO and Founder of The Grown Ass Business, where she guides entrepreneurs through her proprietary methodology, Key Growth Systems, to build strong business foundations. Recognized as a top coach by The Upside in 2024, Celi helps clients break free from revenue plateaus and burnout by focusing on core business principles over quick fixes. Her approach emphasizes clarity and control, optimizing essential business departments to ensure solid foundations for scaling up to seven figures and beyond.

Melinda Wittstock:

Celi shares how, in the early days with her first fashion design business, she fell into all the predictable traps that kept her plateaued in burnout. She learned to love repeatable systems, and staying on top of her numbers, consistently measuring and reflecting. Today we talk about embracing imperfection, learning from the data, and establishing operational systems and pricing strategies.  We also get into how we can easily hit plateaus, and why relying too much on your zone of genius can inadvertently reinforce blind spots—plus why “just wanting more” is not a sustainable strategy.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Celi Arias so you can start the new year with actionable strategies to kickstart your business growth.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Celi, welcome to Wings.

Celi Arias:

Thank you so much for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:

I want to talk about what you call the “messy middle”. And these are companies that are stuck in that kind of mid six figure, and they’re trying to get beyond a plateau, and they don’t know how to do it. That’s where you focus. Tell me what’s going on, on for those companies. What are the symptoms?

Celi Arias:

I’m gonna paint a picture for you to make that a little bit easier to understand or visualize. So often in business, when we start business and, and in life, really, we’re always told, lean into your strengths, right? Even if you have a job, people say, oh, the ideal is for you to be in your zone of genius. And people say this about even if you are a founder or a CEO, the ideal is for you to delegate everything else and be in your zone of genius all the time. And what happens, what I’ve noticed happens, is that’s wonderful. That is all fine and good. And your zone of genius will build a specific type of business. And what will happen eventually is you will hit an invisible ceiling.

Celi Arias:

And that’s actually normal and natural and a good thing to happen. But what happens in that moment is we get frustrated. We’re like, okay, I hit my plateau. My revenue has plateaued. I’m stuck. Everything I’m doing, everything I’ve always done, and I’m not growing further. And in that moment, we are tempted often to do more of what we already know and do well, right? And we kind of go, okay, I’m really good at marketing, so I’m going to do more.

Celi Arias:

I’m going to make more content. I’m going to be on more channels. Or if you’re me, I’m really good at overworking, so I’m just going to work harder and longer. And if you’re a numbers or an operator person, you’re like, I’m just going to obsess more on the operations and the systems and the details. This is the interesting place for me because this is the point where actually you have to get comfortable with your blind sides. Because business works when all the pieces of business are working together.

Celi Arias:

Often entrepreneurs build a business based on what’s in their vision, right? We all kind of approach the world with blinders on. And so, we build a business with what we know, with what we see right in front of us, with what we’re good at. But an actual business, a company, especially if you’re trying to scale to multi seven figures. If you’re trying to sell, someday a company actually has different players and rules and moving parts and they all have to talk to each other. And there’s a way that business works that most entrepreneurs are never taught. So, there isn’t one symptom of the messy middle.

Celi Arias:

I can tell you a few common ones. What I find more often is the person who is really good at something and by golly, they got to 500k a year. And that is a feat, and that is amazing. Their temptation is to do more of the same. The temptation even sometimes we’re told, hire more people, you need more people. And your temptation will be to hire people that you like and that you get along with and you even have similar skills, too. But that’s not actually what builds a solid machine of a business. And that’s really what I teach and that’s what my method is about, is we look at every individual person and figure out where you’re really strong and what would happen and what would be possible if we looked at other areas.

Celi Arias:

So, to answer your specific question, question what I see, surprisingly, sometimes people don’t have an actual real offer strategy or a pricing strategy. It’s not the like, oh, just raise your prices, girl, like, value yourself. It’s not that.  It’s understanding that there is actually strategy behind pricing and making sure that every individual offer that you sell or every product that you sell is profitable and adding to the bottom line. For example, what I see at this phase is that we made money selling to a lot of people.

Celi Arias:

So, our messaging may be unclear, and our positioning may be unclear, or we’re really good at inventing on the fly and creating and moving forward, but there are no systems in place. So, when you start adding team members, nobody really knows what’s going on. So, it feels a little chaotic. And every day you’re flying by the seat of your pants. Those are kind of some of the typical things I see.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. You know, so a lot of founders, you know, they start with a business, they’re doing the thing that they’re really good at doing. They’ve got that. The beginnings of that kind of product market fit, but from there, it’s almost like they’re blind.

Celi Arias:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. We talked about, like, pricing strategy, systems positioning. These are all new skills. So, at this point, to grow the business further, you have to get out of your comfort zone. You either need to change, or you need to really dial up your team. Take me through the process of what you do for these folks to get them to see where the blind spots are in their business and what the solutions are.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, that’s a great question. So, you know how people always say, show me, don’t tell me.  What I created was a methodology that would literally visually show you where you are blind, because it then it makes it easier to really see it for yourself. So, I created a method called the Grown Ass Business Method. But what it ultimately does is it shows you the key responsibilities of the six growth engines in your business, and it lays it all out on a dashboard so you can see each growth engine and how each growth engine is performing. Now, the growth engines are representative of a C suite team. In an ideal world, you as a founder or CEO, realize, ooh, I have some blind spots.

Celi Arias:

So, I need to hire a COO, or I need to hire a CFO or actually, I’m really good at product and sales, but I’m terrible at marketing. I need to hire a CMO. But at this stage in business and when you’re in the six figures, you don’t have the budget to hire those roles. So, what I do is show you what each of those seats is actually responsible for, what they need to know and have in place, what they each need to be measuring. 

Celi Arias:

Marketing is a great example of this. We’re all making content because we’ve been told by all the coaches and we’ve been told by all the marketers, I, by the way, that we need to be making content. So, you may be making content, but that doesn’t actually mean you have product market fit.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. It might not be the right content for the right people at the right time.

Celi Arias:

Exactly. Exactly. And that’s product market fit is your people. Did you build a product that solves their problem? Do you deeply understand their problem? Is the product priced in a way that scales your business, but also serves them right? And then when you know all those pieces, did you make a messaging and positioning and content plan or marketing plan that’s relevant to all of those pieces that came before? Right. So, if you hired a good CMO, they would actually look at all that first?

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Celi Arias:

So that’s kind of what we do systematically is go through every key role in my business. What would they do and what would they be responsible for? And right now, when I can’t afford to hire that whole team, I don’t have to manage all of that and do all of that. But I do need to understand there’s pieces that I’m skipping. Because what I find is when we get into this, oh no. And I see this in a lot of my clients, and I see this in my older clients who kind of went away, worked with somebody else or did something else. And then they come back, I see them kind of get stuck and go, oh no, what do I do? What do I grab for, what do I, what do I reach out to? And they’re going to be sold the flashiest, coolest looking thing. And you have a six-figure business that you probably have budget for it. So, you’re going to kind of pick at straws and you’re gonna try a lot of things.

Celi Arias:

What this method is intended to do is to show you, you know what, you’re actually kind of okay in the content area. Your marketing is speaking to your people and to your market and to your product actually. But you don’t have a sales pipeline and you don’t, you don’t have sales projections laid out. So, everything that you’re doing is not based in numbers and based on goals. And you haven’t broken down a sales projection to understand what months of the year you could actually take vacation so that you aren’t burning out, right? Those are the things that a, that a, a CFO would, would build out for you. For example, is let’s build sales projections so we’re not trying to just go full steam every month of the year.

Celi Arias:

I like to show people, yes, maybe you need that, but actually it looks like what you really need, what would actually move the needle for you is if we address this you’ve never really looked at before. And it’s not your fault; it’s just not the area that you feel most comfortable playing in. And that’s okay.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. It’s surprising how many businesses don’t know their numbers.

Celi Arias:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Or don’t even forecast or don’t have any basis upon which to forecast. I’ve seen even eight figure businesses that don’t know that.

Celi Arias:

I know it sounds so basic when I say it in interviews, but I remember being at a conference for founders and entrepreneurs and there were two speakers on stage who were well known entrepreneurs. One’s a very well-known fashion designer, has had her business for over 20 years and she and her partner asked in the audience to the audience, who here has sales projections and runs their business off of sales projections and out of an audience of maybe around 300, 400 people, it was only me and other woman who raised her. And I was like whoa, okay, these people in here need my tool. So, you’re absolutely right about that. My first business was in my 20s. I was a fashion designer. I had a fashion line for, for 10 years and I didn’t look at the numbers.

Melinda Wittstock:

Why is that? Why were you not looking at the numbers? 

Celi Arias:

I think this is really, I think it’s really important. I genuinely believed that I was a creative and that I was bad at math.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s so funny but like the numbers are, are your friend, you know, like, I mean, you know, they inform you, they tell a story, you can see patterns in them, you know.

Celi Arias:

Right?

Melinda Wittstock:

Like oh yeah, afraid of our numbers.

Celi Arias:

Absolutely. I mean the biggest joke to my mentor when I was in my 20s is that I now teach people business math. I mean he just, this cracks him up. Like he’s like I cannot believe you were the girl that I just could not get to look at an, at a spreadsheet. I’m like I know and it, but hurt me so much in my life. You know there, there is. You are going to pay the price for any of these areas that you don’t develop in your business. You’re going to pay the price.

Celi Arias:

So, this one is one I know intimately well, which is when you don’t have sales projections, when you don’t know when your cycles of sales are and when are your cycles that you can take downtime. When you don’t plot out your year ahead of time like that, that equation equals working seven days a week for years. Because you never know when’s enough. You never feel safe. You never know when you can cover your expenses. You never know when you can actually take a vacation. I didn’t, I lived in Argentina in my 20s. I started my fashion line down there.

Celi Arias:

I grew it to being a global brand that sold in boutiques all over the world. And people will say to me, oh, have you been to Perito Moreno which is in the south of Argentina? And I’d say, and I’m Argentine by the way. And I say, no. They’re like, have you been to La Pampas? And I’m like, no, have you been to. You know, and like, you can list them all off. And my answer is always like, no, I haven’t been there. And people are like, what were you doing living in Argentina?

Melinda Wittstock:

You’re just like working 24 7.

Celi Arias:

I was like, oh, I, I did this crazy thing. I started a fashion label. And I, from the day I started it, I worked seven days a week. And that became my norm. That was my life. And that was also what my nervous system became addicted to as well. It was all I knew. So, the thought of, like closing down my shop, my.

Celi Arias:

My little walk-in boutique, or the behind the scenes we actually sewed and ever made everything, the thought of closing that for a few days and traveling and taking vacation was like, just didn’t cross my mind. It was impossible. But it was truly because I didn’t know my numbers.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that’s the thing. So, when you’re starting out just getting comfortable with your numbers, right, you may not. You may have a wildly out of whack sales projection. Like, either you’re too cautious or maybe you’re swinging for the fence. You’re too optimistic and you think you, you know, do too much. But like, at least you start somewhere and then you measure against that and you start to figure out what, what your cadence is. You start to see, okay, what could we be doing better? Right, Yep. Make it easier, you know, that kind of thing.

Melinda Wittstock:

I mean, you have a lot of women who are stuck in service businesses trying to figure out how to scale their time, which is impossible. So, they spend a lot of time selling all these clients, but then they are now serving all those clients and then their sales efforts drop off. There’s a lot of service businesses stuck in that loop, and it can be very difficult to figure out how to break out of that. What are the different ways you can, you know, drive some recurring revenue or how you structure your deal? If you’re stuck there, what are some of the first things that, that you do to help, say, a business like that? 

Celi Arias:

Well, for that specific business, I call that the actual hamster wheel.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

I know we reference this a lot on the Internet, but that to me is the hamster wheel. Right? Oh, I sold a thing. Yay. I sold a thing. I’m on the top of the hamster wheel and like, okay, now I have to deliver. And then I got stuck in the delivery of my, my goods and service and product and. And then before I know it, I don’t have clients and I have to do all the effort to find a new one. Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Celi Arias:

So, I have this teaching about this where there’s like a funny visual, but a lot of people tell you they’re going to get you off their hamster wheel, and then what they do is teach you more marketing tactics.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

And what I, what I think actually gets you off that hamster wheel is to, to your point, one of the things I teach is profitable pricing. Right. Very, very simple offer suite. A lot of times service providers have like, well, this variation and this variation and this. And before you know it, they have eight to 10 offers. Yeah, that’s hard for your brain to compute when you’re in front of a. When you’re in front of a prospect. But in your brain, you’re like, oh, do they fit for this one or this one or this? Oh, I’ll just send them the menu of all eight options.

Celi Arias:

Well, now you’ve even exhausted the person in front of you.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Celi Arias:

For service providers specifically, I say, let’s get really clear on the 2 to 3 offers max. Let’s get really clear on profitable pricing. And then we lay that out in a sales projections tool that I made that’s intentionally simple and it’s intentionally basic because people believe they’re bad at math, which, by the way, you’re not, because business math is really easy. From one creative to another. I’m saying it. And then we build out projections based on the new numbers and what we know is profitable. Now, to your point, you could be overly optimistic or overly realistic, depending on really your mindset.

Celi Arias:

And, and so what I do is I look at what you made last year, and then we build the sales projections to be a little more than that. Now, how do you address this? I was overly optimistic or I was overly hard and critical of myself. Well, ideally, you’re looking at that sales projections tool at the end of the month, at least. Right. If you had plotted out, I’m going to sell one of these every month of the year except for June and July when I want to take off. Well, at the end of the month, did you sell that thing? And if you didn’t sell that thing, are you able to do something different next month to sell to? Because the goal of a projections tool isn’t, oh, I did it and I filled it out and I have some numbers on a sheet somewhere.

Celi Arias:

The goal is that you actually start to live by it. And what it should do is the numbers should inform your output. So, your energetic output.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

Okay, shoot. I didn’t sell one this month, so next month, my energetic out. But also, what did I do in my marketing? Did I, did I talk to people? Did I talk about my thing? Did I connect with people? Let me look at my calendar. Oh, crap. All month I only spoke to two new people. Okay, so if I just take two times, you know, three. Right. Not double it, but like, what if I talked to six people next month and I posted once a week on LinkedIn and I showed some behind the scenes stories of Instagram or whatever channels you play in.

Celi Arias:

So, this is where the numbers should actually inform your efforts that you’re putting out into the world.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right? Yes. Because if you don’t know the numbers, you don’t know where the blind spots or where the gaps are, or it just doesn’t tell you. Like, you know, man, I need to fix this problem. I may not, may not know how exactly to fix it, but at least I know there’s something that needs to be fixed.

Celi Arias:

Exactly. And you don’t know where you should be putting your time and energy, which is your most precious commodity as an entrepreneur.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

I run this call on Mondays for all past clients. They’re all allowed to come. It’s an accountability call. While I’m in this phase of building a software tool. And just last week, a client of mine who’s been with me for a while, we were doing kind of a number. I do something different every Monday, but we were doing a numbers recall. And she said, I know this is silly and I know this is basic and I know we should know this, but I just had this realization, I just had this aha last week that if I’m putting out five proposals a month, I hit my revenue goals, and this is the stuff I teach, right.

Celi Arias:

And so, I was like, yes, awesome, amazing. Aha moment. Great for you. But then somebody else in the room, actually two other people in the room said, oh my God, thank you for saying that. I needed that reminder.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. This is why masterminds and things like this are so good. Because, you know, you could be in a completely different business and just have an Epiphany based on something that someone else says, and there’s no such thing as a stupid question. I think a lot of entrepreneurs think that they have to put out to the world that they know everything and nobody does. Nobody does.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. Oh, God, no. God, no. Yeah, absolutely. But I just, you know, I chuckled because I was like, yes. I mean, this is literally what I teach you guys, right? Like, how many. I always say, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop? Right? And for those of you who are young and don’t know the reference, what that means is, like, how many leads do I have to talk to that turns into a client? How many. If I’m on.

Celi Arias:

If I’m a social media person, how many views and likes does it take to get a DM, Right? Or how many conversations and introductions does it take to close my next. So, if you’re not tracking any of.

Melinda Wittstock:

Those things from a marketing standpoint, then you don’t really know what to do.

Celi Arias:

Exactly. Right?

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, like, we were talking about messaging and creating all this content and whatnot. If you’re not measuring the effectiveness of that content, just even from a marketing standpoint, like, what is that? I remember talking to you. I had years ago, I’d sold my business and I started this podcast, and I was doing a little bit of consulting, you know, just around. Around this, you know, with female founders. And I always like to ask people, like, what’s your number? Like, what’s your number? What do you want?

Celi Arias:

Like, what.

Melinda Wittstock:

What would you know?

Celi Arias:

And can I guess. Can I guess what people said?

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, a lot of people say, like.

Celi Arias:

A million other people that other people.

Melinda Wittstock:

In tech businesses say, well, you know, like, I’m really going for, like, 10 million or I’m going for, you know, whatever. Right. But I. This woman was, I want to get to a million dollars in sales. And I said, okay, that’s great. So how many do you have to sell of what you’re doing now, now to get to a million dollars in sales? She had no idea. And then. And then.

Melinda Wittstock:

So going from there, you know, it’s kind of. Well, yes, but how many people do you have to talk to to sell? Right? No idea. And, like, she literally had no. She was just going for a million, but had no idea. No idea of how to get there.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s. It is an interesting thing because it’s like, well, how are you going to get there if you. If you don’t have an idea, but an answer that I hear to that question a lot is I just want more.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Like they don’t even know.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, I want more. I want to make more than I’m making right now. And I’m like, okay, I completely understand that. And I have a lot of love and compassion for you. And more is not a number. And I need a number because I can measure a number, but I can’t measure more.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, exactly. Because once you know that number, I guess you can sort of reverse engineer exactly, ways to get to that number. Like do you sell more at a higher price point or do you. Sorry, sorry. Sell. You know, I guess, sorry, let me say that again. Are, do, do you, do you sell at a higher price point meaning you need less volume or are you going for a volume thing where you got to sell a lot and you need like recurring revenue and you need upsells and cross sells and whatnot to get there? Right?

Celi Arias:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

And, and a lot of people don’t know that. It’s kind of like, oh, we’ll do it all, you know. Okay.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

All right. Okay. So, we’ve talked about the service business and, you’re a coach. You mentioned you’re developing some software of your own. Like let’s just talk a little bit about your experience growing your business in terms of how you make your own things scalable.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. So, I, I am a fashion founder early on in my career and then I got an MBA and have done corporate and then became a COO for startup. I loved being a COO for startups, but I also always sold, I helped sell those startups. So, I ultimately became a coach and I, I coached at a, at a firm for some time and then I went out on my own and I always did one on one coaching. But over the years and after hundreds of clients, there are certain patterns that I see. And so, for me and being a one-on-one coach is not scalable, right. So, we’re speaking like what is the scalable model for myself and what was my own experience of that? And I was one on one coaching people while I was going through IVF, which was just very exhausting on my body.

Celi Arias:

So, I was curious about at this point what I’m finding is a pattern of. There’s always, I always think, even my seven figure clients that come to me, I always think I’m going to fix complex things and there’s always something foundational I end up fixing. So I thought, what if I could turn this into a step by step method that, that doesn’t live in my brain, but what if it’s something that I can get out of my brain and make it visual and make it easy for people to understand and learn so I can teach people how to think the way I think about growth strategy. And that took me on a journey of. I created, I created this dashboard with like, okay, in a dream world, if I was helping you, here are all the things that I would work on with you and that I would make sure you have solid in your business. And here are all the met, here’s the minimum metrics that you need to track. Minimum, because I think sometimes we get inundated with data and metrics that aren’t relevant to growth. And then what I did was I was like, okay, I actually always knew I wanted to build a software that would have been like the pipe dream.

Celi Arias:

But having been now a seasoned entrepreneur, because I’m now in my 40s, I knew, no, don’t just go build the thing, test it first. So, I’m saying this because I hope it’s useful because I learned this the hard way as well. I had an idea, but I needed to test it and make sure, can I run 10 people through the same methodology at the same time and they each come out with their own custom strategy and they each come out with the answers they needed. So, I started running group programs of the grown ass business method. And that took on different iterations, right? It was six weeks, one cohort. It was eight weeks, one cohort. Then I totally flipped an onset, and I turned it into a four-day MBA style intensive with six weeks of support. So, I played with a lot of things, but what I was really doing was I was actually creating proof of concept.

Celi Arias:

Rather than just go dump hundreds of thousands of dollars and just build the software that I envisioned, I thought I need to run several businesses through this method and make sure it works before I put my time and money into.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that makes sense. That’s always the thing. You’ve got to do all that, you know, requirements and testing and user testing and all that stuff before. Really before. And as you’re building it even, you know.

Celi Arias:

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So that’s what I did was I ran a group program of the method for two years. I’ve run nine cohorts and learned a lot about myself, the process and the method for sure, but also learned about myself in that process. I’m, I’m an introvert and I love one-on-one coaching. But it turns out like, I love group coaching. Like, I love the challenge of it. I love having different businesses in the room and how they learn from each other and feed off of each other.

Celi Arias:

Different industries at different revenue levels. It’s a really fun challenge. As a nerdy brain and now I’m so that was really fun for me and I built a really great revenue running group programs and now I’m in the act of. Okay, I feel really good about this method and what it does and I’m challenging myself to see can I turn it into a software that if, if somebody wanted to, they could press the emergency help button and get a coach, but they could also run themselves through the whole thing and be using this dashboard to run their business and their growth strategy and their metrics. So that’s, that’s kind of the short story.

Melinda Wittstock:

That makes a lot of sense.

Celi Arias:

Well, thank you.

Melinda Wittstock:

I really appreciate that. No, no, 100%. And so, so, so this is interesting. It’s a nice pivot into other types of businesses that, that are product businesses that are more inherently scalable. Right?

Celi Arias:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, what are the sort of bottlenecks that those companies are experiencing? Because it’s not necessarily a time issue. It can be, it can… 

Celi Arias:

It can definitely be in software for sure.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like software is complicated too because you have a lot of testing and usability testing. A lot of people build things and say, oh, because we, because we built it, people will come. And that’s, that’s the mistake that people make over and over and over again in software development. You see it now with AI, like, oh, we have an agent. Okay, cool, so you have an agent.

Celi Arias:

Good for you. Good job.

Melinda Wittstock:

And okay, so what problem is it solving for whom? Right? Like. And yeah. So, so for those types of companies, what where do they most get stuck?

Celi Arias:

Well, I, or I actually think for pro, it’s for product-based businesses. That’s one of the very first places I wanted to build a thing because I wanted to build it and it would be fun for me to build it. And I’m not really sure if it solves a problem. And I don’t know if you, if you do this for yourself, but I mean every day I have to remind myself suddenly make sure this solves a problem and, and make sure that you’re solving the problem quickly and efficiently. Because also for product based, at least digital products, everybody wants an immediate, immediate satisfaction or immediate results. So digitally I would say that’s the problem is it’s so tempting to go, oh, but I can add this cool feature. I can do this extra thing and, and this happens for all types of entrepreneurs. I can add this product.

Celi Arias:

I can make this look, I here, here’s what I say about product line businesses. Do not do as I do. Do not do as I did. Do as Kim Kardashian did. What would I call this? What would Kim K do? Okay, okay.

Melinda Wittstock:

What would she do?

Celi Arias:

Because think about it for a second. Fashion is a perfect example. She had millions of dollars, but she did not start a fashion line and put out an entire collection. What did she do?

Melinda Wittstock:

Tell me I’m not a big follower.

Celi Arias:

Well, this is like fascinating to me because I see fashion brands do this wrong all the time and product lines do this wrong all the time. Some she did something early on that very few product e commerce brands were doing. She built one product right. And she sold the crap out of that one product. And for a time, you thought that all Skims did, which is her brand. We all believed that Skims was really just competing with Spanx.

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Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Celi Arias, CEO and Founder of The Grown Ass Business.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Celi Arias:

And we thought that it was just Kim K’s take on and I’m not a fan of her, but I think this is an important business strategy. It’s really, really brilliant because just because she had the multi millions and she could have poured into making full collections like she’s doing now, she didn’t. She made one product and allowed the money that she made off of that product to make the next product and the next product and the next product.

Melinda Wittstock:

And it’s much easier to sell to existing customers.

Celi Arias:

Absolutely, absolutely. But that’s, that’s a product thing that I see people over and over when I talk to product people is they’re like, and I’ll make this iterate. I’ll make this scent candle and then this scent candle and then this scent candle and then I’ll make, I want to make this. The scented sticks and I want to make this. And I’m like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s, let’s save your money. Because production is a whole thing. Manufacturing and supply chain and shipping and all the things is a whole thing.

Celi Arias:

So, I think that’s really important when you’re in a product-based business.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like perfect one thing and that’s a really hard thing for entrepreneurs to just focus on one thing.

Celi Arias:

Because we’re creative.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Because you have this big vision and you see it, you see it at its completion.

Celi Arias:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

But learning to take the wins incrementally can be hard for people because they want to just get the whole vision done.

Celi Arias:

Exactly, exactly. Because we want to get. Yes, we want to get to the vision. That’s the exciting part.

Melinda Wittstock:

And you feel kind of incomplete until you’re there. But if you have a very grand vision, like a lot of entrepreneurs do, right. And you’re in rush, like, we’re all in this sort of self-imposed rush.

Celi Arias:

Oh my God, that’s so true.

Melinda Wittstock:

I realized there was one point where I’m like, I have to, I have to, I have to. And like, and then I had to kind of like have a chat with myself. Like, who says you have to? Like, you’re the boss. Like, I know, I’ll give you this.

Celi Arias:

I, I feel that. I still, I still feel that. And I know better. And I’m like, I coach people on this, and I still feel like I have to get this done by this date. And I’m like, well, that is an arbitrary date.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly.

Celi Arias:

That you picked. So be rushing towards here.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, yeah, no, it’s, it’s true. And I, you know, and, and I guess in highly, you know, competitive industries, right. We always have that kind of paranoia about like, what’s our competitor? Oh my God, I gotta go faster, you know? Yeah, you know, you know what? Whatever. Right.

Celi Arias:

Well, I don’t know if you feel this in AI, but I feel like with AI, and especially if you’re doing something with AI, do you feel that, like, I have to rush to market because everybody else is probably seeing 100%.

Melinda Wittstock:

I mean, that’s, that’s the thing that’s driving it potentially off a cliff. It’s, it’s the move fast, break things ethos of Silicon Valley. And so, you have what’s been interesting to me because like, my company is an innovator in AI and but we’re doing it in a way that’s very focused, it’s ethical, you know, right. A line just going a little slower, really focused on the trust layer of the whole thing. Because now what’s happened is because they’ve moved so fast, it’s actually created an opportunity for newer entrants. Right. Who are solving the trust layer.

Melinda Wittstock:

Because there’s a certain point where, okay, so this tool does this kind of cool thing, but oh my goodness, it just, the AI, the, the age just ate all my data. Like, oops. Right, right. Because a lot of these are sort of breaking. But there is tremendous pressure and there’s a lot of pressure that comes from the investors as well. Right. Like this idea of like, you got to seize market fast, all of that.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like it’s moving faster than it did before.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, it’s, it’s moving so fast. It’s dizzying. And there’s a lot of people who, you know from Open AI on down, which is like, okay, this is for everyone. Sam Altman on one day he said, we’re solving cancer. And then I think it was almost the very next day he was going to be doing like, basically porn, you know.

Melinda Wittstock:

So even these big companies that have like huge like billions and billions of dollars, like they don’t even know. Right?

Celi Arias:

Yeah, but, and, but I do think for, for product-based businesses, I think the thing is you’re building a business, it will take a few years to really probably penetrate your market, to have market share, to be where you want to be. Whatever you want to do with that, if you want to run that business or if you want to sell that business. That’s an important thing to know, by the way, early on. I think that’s an important question to answer very early on. But also know that you are building a business that’s meant to be run. So, it is not a short term, it’s not a short-term trajectory. It is a long-term game. And I was talking to a friend yesterday who is a coach and she comes from product and now she’s a coach.

Celi Arias:

And she was like, but you’re a coach and you’re a phenomenal coach. You do realize that you’re about to embark on a product business, right? And most coaches don’t like running product businesses. And I was like, oh, yes, I know, but I am actually a product person first and I love building businesses and I love running businesses. And she was like, oh, I’m assuming you want to sell it. And I was like, no, I actually don’t want to sell it. I want to run it because I love running businesses. So that I think is also important for product-based businesses to know.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s a really big one. I’ll put my venture partner hat on at the moment at a fund that invests in primarily women founded businesses. You know, early stage, you know, Series A. Yeah. And one of the questions is, what’s your exit plan? And then any investor is going to ask that because they want their, they want to know that if you’re taking investment, you’re selling part of your business, and those investors want an exit. Yeah. So, you’ve got to be really clear about that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like, what kind of like are you generating so much cash that at a certain point you can buy your investors out? If you don’t want to sell by acquisition, are you the type of person that wants to IPO and run a publicly traded company?

Melinda Wittstock:

And so few founders have really worked this out, much less knowing what their exit number actually is.

Celi Arias:

Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

Or who they would want to sell to and why. Like, because if you just love running the business and you’re creating a business, like every business will have some sort of exit because you’re not going to do it all your life. Like you need some sort of succession planning or something. Right.

Celi Arias:

Yep, yep. I say that to people all the time and they look at me like I’m crazy. So, I’m glad to hear it from you.

Melinda Wittstock:

No, it’s, it’s a big thing that people miss. I mean, the other thing, we don’t…

Celi Arias:

Think about that again because we’re creatives. So. Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

Actually, the other thing that founders don’t think about is what’s the, the asset value of their business? How are they actually building the value of their business? And operationalizing that, because that’s very different from just revenue and earnings and the typical benchmarks of growth. Because a potential acquirer may just love the fact that you have this great community because your community fills a gap that they have. 

Melinda Wittstock:

So, they’re buying, they’re, they’re looking to, to solve a problem for themselves. Right, right, right. And each one of those things or assets would carry with it a different potential exit multiple. Right. And so, but most people just don’t think this way.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. It’s like literally comes down to the same thing. Know your numbers and, but, but not only that, but know what you want and…

Celi Arias:

Yes, yes. More. More is not a number. I promise you. More won’t get you to that feeling, Because I think that a lot of entrepreneurs are trying to feel, you know, I. I tell some of my clients this, like, don’t use your business to heal your trauma and to hear heal your childhood story of not enoughness.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

Let your business be a business. But we can’t help ourselves because we’re human. Well, the more you can.

Melinda Wittstock:

I had another guest on this podcast. This episode hasn’t aired yet, but we were talking about this. This very thing that a lot of entrepreneurs start a business because it is about healing their own personal trauma.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like, what is it that motivates us to become entrepreneurs in the first place? Like we have some sort of lived experience or some sort of frustration in life or for some sort of significance or there’s some sort of emotional reason underpinning it. 

Melinda Wittstock:

This is where businesses should and do cause personal growth.

Celi Arias:

Absolutely. And I believe the awareness of it is important.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, it is. Whether you’re dragged, kicking, screaming, or you set out with an intention that knowing that this is. This is therapy.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. I have an MBA and have a Master of Divinity, and people are always like, what? And I was like, yeah, I decided to become a business coach instead of a pastor because there is nothing like a spiritual journey like starting.

Melinda Wittstock:

This is a theme that comes up on this podcast all the time. The reason it’s called Wings of Inspired Business, the inspired in the title of the show is all about that. And I’ve learned, you know, creating five of them, that it confronts you with all your stuff, and you have to grow as a person, and you have to grow into that awareness, and you have to shed a lot of old subconscious wounds and traumas and all that kind of stuff along the way to be able to grow. Because you’re growing into, like, a different stages of your business.

Melinda Wittstock:

You know, from startup to your first revenue to getting to six figures, getting to, you know, the million from a million to three, from three to 10.

Melinda Wittstock:

You’re not a different person, but as a CEO, you will be focused on different things. You’ve just got to be ready to be constantly learning.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. But don’t you find that journey really fun.

Melinda Wittstock:

I do. I mean, I, I couldn’t live any other way. Like, I joke that I’m unemployable.

Celi Arias:

Yes. Yes. Me too.

Melinda Wittstock:

I can’t not do this. Right. Like, I love the challenge of it.

Celi Arias:

I just didn’t. Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

You know, I just enjoy it. Even the, even the failure part of it, which is inevitable because everything’s a thesis. It’s like a scientist in a lab. You try all kinds of different things until. Eureka. Okay, we got it.

Celi Arias:

But yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

And like, learning how to embrace those failures is just learning experiences is, Is a really important thing to kind of, you know, figure out. 

Celi Arias:

Yeah. And I think, I mean, you. I’m imagining. I don’t know you personally except for this lovely conversation, but I’m imagining that you are somebody who likes self-development, like, who likes growing as a person, evolving as a person. I think, I think the real entrepreneurs actually also enjoy the journey that they themselves go on.

Melinda Wittstock:

It is some years ago that I realized learning was one of my highest values.

Celi Arias:

Yes. Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Like, I actually just enjoy the learning process. Like, I’m endlessly curious. I, I just enjoy, like, the, you know, learning. And I guess it’s, it’s that, that kind of like, oh, we could do it this way instead of that way. Oh, how cool.

Celi Arias:

Absolutely. Me too. Me too.

Melinda Wittstock:

And that’s fine. It’s not threatening to me. It’s not threatening to me if an employee says, hey, Melinda, no, that’s really, that’s, that’s not a good idea. You should do it this way. I’m like, okay, cool. Let me know what you, you know what I mean? And then being able to synthesize, especially if you’re an entrepreneur that has a lot of different people telling you maybe contradictory things. And it could be coming from investors, it could be coming from your team, it could be coming from advisors, all kinds of different things. And they all have their perspective, but you need to be able to synthesize that and make it into your own.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, you’ve got to be open to hearing all these things, but not being scattershot and just doing what the last person told you to do without. Right. That’s been an interesting process for me.

Celi Arias:

Totally.

Melinda Wittstock:

Is getting to that place. So, you can’t really be, you know, in it for ego, I guess. I joke, actually, with my board chairman. We have this joke that a lot of people want to be right or they want to be rich.

Celi Arias:

Right, right.

Melinda Wittstock:

They’re not necessarily.

Celi Arias:

And they’re. And they’re not necessarily the same thing.

Melinda Wittstock:

No, they’re really not.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. Yeah. I think about that all the time, actually. And I, I also have grown my husband’s business and scaled his business, and I managed his team and I noticed, I noticed certain scenarios where I’m like, do I, as his lead strategist, it’s not my business. So, do I want to be right, right now?

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Celi Arias:

Is it important if I’m right right now, or is it important for us to figure out what is the most doable strategic path for him that he can execute and that it’s for his business, you know, 100%.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, this is an interesting segue into the other part of scalability, which is team and leverage. Right.

Celi Arias:

And.

Melinda Wittstock:

And I, you know, at these sort of this messy middle. Right?

Celi Arias:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

People who hire people to do things.

Celi Arias:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

Necessarily to achieve a specific results. And then a lot of founders. And I’ve fallen into this trap where you just sort of assume that they can read your mind and they know what they’re supposed to do and they have really been onboarded properly or there’s not a really good process for feedback and, you know, all that kind of stuff. Right. So, tell me a little bit about that and some of the things, psychological and otherwise, that, that, that, that founders that you work with, you know, have in building and successfully managing and motivating teams.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, well, you know, it’s, it’s interesting. I am a big, big believer of lean teams for this reason, because most truly visionary entrepreneurs are not great leaders. And so, when they try to grow, you know, I’ve seen this even in startups where I was hired. In startups, when they grow team really fast because they received money and they had money to hire, that doesn’t. That didn’t mean that they knew how to manage or lead them.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah.

Celi Arias:

And I see this in some of my clients because I have some clients who, who admit I just, I suck at managing people. But I was talking to my husband about this recently. We were talking about some things that were changing, and he said, yeah, I finally. It took him years to even acknowledge I have the vision. I don’t even want to explain it to people. I just want people to believe me. And I was like, yeah, that’s because you’re a creative visionary and you’re not a leader. Leaders understand the importance of buy in.

Celi Arias:

Leaders understand the importance of, like, for me to get you to do your job well, you gotta believe in where I’m leading you. And for you to believe it, I gotta be able to distill it down to you in a way that you understand it. So being a visionary entrepreneur and a leader are two totally different things in my book and my experience. And a lot of times that is ultimately why really visionary entrepreneurs need an assistant. 

Melinda Wittstock:

You mentioned before that you were sort of a COO of a lot of.

Celi Arias:

Yes. And that was what. That was my second hire. That, like, if you are that type of visionary where you’re like, I don’t even want to have to explain myself. I get it. But you’re going to need a COO who gets the vision and who knows how to interpret that into language that the team will understand.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly.

Celi Arias:

Because the last thing you want is people on the team going, why are we doing that? Oh, he’s pivoting again.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, my God.

Celi Arias:

What? Like, like to your point, last week we were saving cancer and today we’re doing what? Right. So, you need that person if that’s you. One of the most important hires you need is a CEO or chief of staff type person that knows how to interpret what you are trying to say in a way that people understand.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. There was an iconic business book years back called Rocket Fuel that had a quiz. Right. Are you visionary or are you the integrator? Like the operator person? Right?

Celi Arias:

Yep.

Melinda Wittstock:

And it was dangerous for me because I came off as like, like literally I was 97% visionary. Right.

Celi Arias:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

But here’s what was dangerous. I was 86% integrator. So, the temptation for me and is where I’ve got to check myself is like, do it all. I. Yeah. Like, it’s a temptation because I can, but that doesn’t mean I should.

Celi Arias:

Exactly. I’m similar that I’m visionary, but I also have been a COO. It is a really dangerous combo.

Melinda Wittstock:

And I’ve learned this kind of to my cost. 

Melinda Wittstock:

Because it’s very easy. I’m good at detail and I’m a systems thinker, you know I can see these systems, you know, I think very matrixy. 

Celi Arias:

Oh, interesting. Do you know what your human design is by chance?

Melinda Wittstock:

I don’t.

Celi Arias:

Oh, my gosh, Melinda, we have to find out for you. Do you know what your enneagram is?

Melinda Wittstock:

I did it ages ago and I don’t remember.

Celi Arias:

Okay, I’m gonna have to. I’m gonna have to email you and find out, because I’m the same way. I always say that. I can see the matrix and pull out the pattern, see the future.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like, it’s a great thing. And it’s also like a really scary, like, hard thing too, because you can see what a lot of other people can’t see. You can fall into the trap of getting frustrated quite easily. Or your mind is just going very fast

Melinda Wittstock:

Most people are linear, and if you’re not linear, people can interpret you as being kind of confused. 

Celi Arias:

Right? You’re like, no, no, no. It’s right here. Here’s the path.

Melinda Wittstock:

Obvious.

Celi Arias:

You don’t see that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Right.

Celi Arias:

That’s exactly why I turned my methodology into visuals. And I use a lot of visuals to explain and show things. And even I’m trying. I’m playing with getting the software to be really visual. And it’s almost intentionally elementary. But because I understand that I need you to see what I see.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Celi Arias:

And I can’t convince you, and I can’t talk to you about it. I have to show you because my brain works that way.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So that could be very helpful for someone like me. Right. It’s like, we’re just about to close our financing. We’ve got a lot of hiring to do. 

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, we should talk after this. Yeah, I would love that.

Celi Arias:

I would totally love that. Are you kidding? Yeah. That’s what I’ve learned about people. It’s like, oh, yeah, I can’t get you to see what I’m seeing in my brain. Yeah, that’s. That’s. How do I. How do I make this? And I actually.

Celi Arias:

You’ll find this really interesting. I worked with an artist who was trained in architecture school, so he helped me kind of architect worlds that could come bring this. These concepts to life for people.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that’s really interesting. I love that kind of cross disciplinary approach and also recognizing that people absorb information differently. Like, some are visual, some are experiential. You know, some are, you know. Yeah, like all of that.

Celi Arias:

Oh, yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

I could talk to you for a lot longer. 

Celi Arias:

Me too. Thank you.

Melinda Wittstock:

But I want to make sure that people know how to find you and work with you. What’s the best way?

Celi Arias:

Well, right now I only work with a handful of people while we are building our software is called Get Scale Pilot. And you can find me right now on grownassbusiness.com and just shoot me an email and we’ll chat.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hey, that’s awesome. And when does Get Scale Pilot like, launch? 

Celi Arias:

The first round of beta will be in January of 26.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, fantastic.

Celi Arias:

Yeah. Wild, wild times over here.

Melinda Wittstock:

Okay, well, exciting, exciting. So, you’ll have to come back on later next year.

Celi Arias:

Yeah, I would love that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Celi Arias:

Of course. Thank you for having me. This was awesome.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Celi Arias is CEO and Founder of The Grown Ass Business, where she helps entrepreneurs scale into the 7-figures with her proprietary methodology, Key Growth Systems.

Melinda Wittstock:

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Melinda Wittstock:

That’s it for today’s episode. Head on over to WingsPodcast.com – and subscribe to the show. When you subscribe, you’ll instantly get my special gift, the WINGS Success Formula. Women … Innovating … Networking … Growing …Scaling … IS the WINGS of Inspired Business Formula …for daily success in your business and life. Miss a Wings episode? We’ve got hundreds in the vault, all with actionable advice and epiphanies. Check them out at MelindaWittstock.com or wingspodcast.com. You can also catch me on LinkedIn or Instagram @MelindaAnneWittstock. We also love it when you share your feedback with a 5-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or wherever else you listen, including Podopolo where you can interact with me and share your favorite clips.