985 Jenn Donahue:

Wings of Inspired Business Podcast EP984 – Host Melinda Wittstock Interviews Jenn Donahue

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Jenn Donahue:

You know, we joke all the time in the military that a plan is only good until the first shot, and then after that, it just goes, you know, whatever way it goes. It’s the same thing in business. You know, you have that plan, you get out there, and then all of a sudden, something goes wrong. We have plans, plans, plans, plans, plans, so that whenever we hit that first obstacle, we already have some different direction that we can go so that we can go up over and around that obstacle. Our customers have plans; our competitors have plans. You’re going to be so much more successful if you thought about all of the different options and what would happen if something goes wrong.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, show him your plans. Entrepreneurs tend to double down on Plan A with relentless focus and tenacity, avoiding thinking of all the contingencies until a pivot is forced by circumstance. There’s a need to be in massive action yet also prepping for myriad scenarios without falling into analysis paralysis.  So today we talk to a former US Navy Captain turned seismic engineer and entrepreneur. Jenn Donahue shares what entrepreneurs can learn from military precision about leadership, resilience and adaptability.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward as a five-time serial entrepreneur, so I started this podcast to catalyze an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other. Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together and lift as we climb.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who has led battalions of 800 people in high-stakes combat zones in Afghanistan to founding and scaling a pioneering seismic engineering firm. Jenn Donahue was a trailblazing U.S. Navy Captain, who built a bridge across the Euphrates in the middle of an Iraqi war zone. She’s constructed combat outposts in the middle of deserts filled with insurgents. She’s led earthquake and tsunami reconnaissance missions in Samoa and Japan. She’s designed the seismic plans for a bridge over the Panama Canal, built roads by blasting and drilling in the coldest climes of Ketchikan, and served as the seismology expert at no fewer than five nuclear power plants.

Melinda Wittstock:

Jenn’s journey started at age 8 building Legos, and throughout her storied career she has demonstrated what it takes to thrive with resilience in uncertainty, whether on the battlefield or in the boardroom. Jenn is a PhD civil engineer, Commodore in charge of 1800 Navy personnel and 3 battalions, founder of her globally recognized firm JL Donahue Engineering with a roster of clients that includes PG&E, Duke Energy, the Tennessee Valley Authority and Bay Area Rapid Transit, founder of Dare to Rise, and in-demand public speaker. If that weren’t enough she’s also the author of the new book, The Warrior Framework. Jenn has also served on professional boards such as EERI (Earthquake Engineering Research Institute), Geotechnical Extreme Events Reconnaissance (GEER), and USGS (United States Geological Survey). She also lectures at UCLA and UC Berkeley.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we talk about how lessons from military leadership translate into entrepreneurial success, the power of mentorship, how to navigate uncertainty, the challenges women leaders face, and insights on authentic leadership and collaboration. 

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Jenn Donahue.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Jenn, welcome to Wings.

Jenn Donahue:

Thank you so much for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:

I am so intrigued by what you learned as a U.S. Navy Captain, leading battalions of, like, 800 people that has influenced or shaped your entrepreneurial journey.

Jenn Donahue:

One of the things that I really learned, you know, especially as being an entrepreneur, you know, it can be really lonely. So that was completely opposite of what I experienced in the military, where you’re surrounded by people all the time. But what it really taught me for entrepreneurship is the fact that, you know what? Things don’t always go right, and you feel like, you know what? I just. I’m not making any headway. No matter what I do. It’s just the same thing. I can’t get the clients. I can’t get this.

Jenn Donahue:

You know, you’re on your own. You are your own master. And it’s the same thing whenever you’re in the military as a commanding officer, as a US Navy captain, things don’t always go the same. And so, you have to try to build up that resilience. You know, it just is a little different. You know, you’re in charge of 800 people maybe instead of just in charge of, like, yourself or one or two people. But you still have to go out. You still have to find things. You still have to try to make things work. And that’s really what I learned. It’s like, you know what? You just don’t give up. You have people counting on you as an entrepreneur. You still have to pay your mortgage, and so it’s just as important.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. I mean, what’s interesting about entrepreneurship, where I think there’s a little bit of a through line here, is that you can have a plan, but, like, say, in the context of war, your enemy also has a plan.

Jenn Donahue:

Right?

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, like an entrepreneurship, your competitor has a plan. You know, your team members may have a sort of a different outlook or plan, right? Your clients, you know, right?  

Melinda Wittstock:

How do you manage that? 

Jenn Donahue:

You know, we joke all the time in the military that a plan is only good until the first shot, and then after that, it just goes, you know, whatever way it goes. It’s the same thing in business. You know, you have that plan, you get out there, and then all of a sudden, something goes wrong. And this is where the military really helps, because we have plans, we have branch plans, we have options. We have all types of plans. You know, we kind of joke is like, we have plans, plans, Plans, plans, plans. But the thing is, is that we have to have all those backup plans and branch plans so that whenever we do, you know, hit that first obstacle, we already have some different direction that we can go so that we can go up over around that obstacle. That’s one of the things that’s really awesome about entrepreneurship as well, is that like you said, our customers have plans, our competitors have plans.

Jenn Donahue:

And so, if you start to think about all of the, I hate to say this, all the things that can go wrong, then you really get into those branch plans, those options, and you can make additional plans for instead of just your main plan. And you’re going to be so much more successful if you thought about all of the different options and what would happen if something goes wrong.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of entrepreneurs don’t do that. That sounds like standard military practice. A lot of people doing the planning, people have been there, done that before. But with entrepreneurship especially, you know, in a first business or whatever, you don’t even know what you don’t know. Right?

Jenn Donahue:

True, true.

Melinda Wittstock:

So that kind of planning isn’t, isn’t really there, I think, for most entrepreneurs. Most entrepreneurs launch and they have a Plan A and no other plan.

Jenn Donahue:

Please have a Plan B through L. 

Melinda Wittstock:

So, when you were creating your engineering business, did you have all that mapped out? You had it if this, then that kind of structure?

Jenn Donahue:

I did a little bit. But like you said, I was also so new, I thought, oh, well, this should be easy. Like, I run battalions, I can run a business. It’s different. So, yeah, then I was like, hey, wait a minute. Okay, I know how to do this. You know, if I don’t get this client, then what am I going to do? You know, if something goes wrong on a project, what’s the next piece? If I need to partner with somebody and they say no, you know, just starting to go down the line. And I really spent almost like a couple of weeks just starting to think of, like, all the things that can go wrong.

Jenn Donahue:

And then, you know, what are all of those options and backup plans and branch plans to start going through? Because honestly, I, I fell into that exact same trap of like, oh, this is what I’m going to do. This is my Plan A, of course it’s going to work. Why wouldn’t it work? 

Melinda Wittstock:

Right? Yeah. I think Monty Python is a good guide here: Expect the unexpected.

Jenn Donahue:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

I mean, building five businesses over, over my entrepreneurial career, there were always things that came out of left field. And so, your resilience and your nimbleness in that situation is, is critical. And so how is the military? Because in the military there’s just all this discipline, I guess, you know, I’m speaking as a rank outsider. You know, I don’t, I just know what I’ve read or whatever, so I don’t really know. But you just assume there’s this, all this discipline and like following orders and you. This sort of stuff. And in the context of entrepreneurship, huh? Well, I don’t know. Is there really? I mean, there are some playbooks, but what works for one entrepreneur doesn’t work for another.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, it’s a little more nebulous.

Jenn Donahue:

Oh, absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so how did you find that transition, especially when leading a team, like leading a team in entrepreneurship must be different than leading a team of disciplined people in the military. So, like, was, was that surprising to you? Like the just be transitioning from that, you know, okay, you’re going to follow these orders as opposed to let’s all collaborate and figure this out, right?

Jenn Donahue:

It was. There are, there actually is a lot of collaboration that does go on in the military. But yes, it is very disciplined and everybody knows their piece.. It’s very structured. So, for instance, you know exactly who’s around you, what their functions are. You know, who your boss is, your boss, boss’s boss, and boss’s boss all the way up. But a lot of times, whenever you’re an entrepreneur, everybody is wearing so many different hats because you have to make things work.

Jenn Donahue:

And so, it gets a little bit more nebulous. You know, one of the things I always joked is in the military, it’s very strict. You have orders, people do what they’re supposed to do. But as an entrepreneur, unfortunately, you can’t make your employees do push-ups whenever they mess up. You know, that’s the way to get, you know, called HR. You know, you can’t do that. So, it’s a whole lot bigger picture. You know, in the military, we rely on discipline because that’s what keeps everybody safe.

Jenn Donahue:

That’s what keeps everybody from not getting killed. And so, whenever we say, hey, this is what we’re going to do, everybody just does it. But on the civilian side, you can’t just say, this is what we’re going to do. It has to be collaborative because a lot of times they might know more about whatever the issue or the problem is than you do. And you have to bring them in, and you have to collaborate and you have to create something and get their buy in. You know, a lot of times we don’t necessarily get buy in in the military. We say just you’re going to go do this and they go do it. Buy in is so important.

Jenn Donahue:

And also creating that trust with your personnel so that when you do these things, you know, they’re, they’re all excited about it and everybody’s behind you.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, in your business, how many of your employees are also ex-military?

Jenn Donahue:

I’m the only one.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, interesting.

Melinda Wittstock:

You didn’t really recruit from that pool. That’s interesting. Why is that?

Jenn Donahue:

Well, what I do now is very high-end seismic engineering. I look at the plans for nuclear power plants, dams, buildings, bridges, things like that. There’s basically nobody that does that type of work that’s coming from the military. We’re all, at least people that I know were all engineers of some kind. But what I’m doing is very, very, very specific engineering.

Melinda Wittstock:

Okay, so tell me a little bit about how you got there. I mean, you know, your bio says you built a bridge across the Euphrates River. Were you under fire?

Jenn Donahue:

We did have insurgents all over the area, so we didn’t get fired on there. But also, we had a pretty good perimeter. We also had some marines that were helping us out to maintain that perimeter so that nobody would come into our work zones. Really didn’t get shot at a lot until I got to Afghanistan, you know, and we get shot at every time that we’d fly in a helicopter from base to base to go check out like all my troops that were scattered everywhere. So, we get fired at all the time that way. You know, we’ve had insurgents that tried to blow up our bases, we’ve had rocket attacks. Things were a little bit more heated whenever we were in Afghanistan than whenever we were in Iraq.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, you’re building this bridge. Is that the beginning of your interest in the engineering work that you do? How did you make this transition?

Jenn Donahue:

Oh, no, I’ve been engineering since I was eight.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh my goodness. Okay, so tell me about that. Okay, let’s go back.

Jenn Donahue:

Let’s go back then to age 8.

Melinda Wittstock:

What made you interested in engineering? You were the, you were the girl in the class building things.

Jenn Donahue:

I was building things, yes. Okay, so when I was a little girl, you know, most of the, the other girls my age were playing with Barbies and that was pretty normal. But I set my sights on the Barbie dream house. Like I just thought that was the coolest thing. So, I saved up all of my allowance, and I was able to buy it. I brought it home. Barbie never actually got to live in the Dream House because all I did was build it. I build it.

Jenn Donahue:

I tore it down. I reconstructed it. I mean, that’s all I did, like, over and over and over again, you know, this poor little, like, plastic Barbie house. Like, that’s all I did. And I just had so much fun building the Dream House. And my mom kind of looked at this and said, hey, that’s weird. So, she started buying me things like Legos, and I would just start building with Legos, and. And yeah, I’ve been building and constructing, like, pretty much my entire life.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing. Your background, your education, obviously would be in engineering. You’re a PhD. And so, tell me a little bit about the timeline of how all these things came together, like your military service, but also your engineering expertise.

Jenn Donahue:

Sure, yes. I graduated high school and went to Texas A and M University, and I studied ocean engineering, which is basically civil engineering, but it touches the water, and it’s pretty cool. And I thought, oh, yeah, I’m going to be an ocean engineer. So, I joined the Navy. Like, that sounds fun, but I got to go all over the world. And then as an engineer in the Navy, we built bases. I was on Guam. 

Jenn Donahue:

We had all kinds of really cool stuff. So, I don’t go on, like, big, gray floating things. I don’t do that. I’ve actually had zero sea time in the Navy because I build. We go out with the Marines, and I stayed with basically in the military for 27 years, both active and reserve. I did go and get my master’s and PhD in engineering at UC Berkeley. And kind of along the way, they would put me on active duty.

Jenn Donahue:

They would take me off active duty. And I started my company whenever I was in one of my times. Right after I got back from Afghanistan, I was like, hey, you know what? I’m going to start a company. And then, of course, they pulled me back on active duty again. But then I was able to retire in 2022. And so, I’ve been running the engineering company, and then I’ve been decided to become a public speaker.

Melinda Wittstock:

Amazing.

Jenn Donahue:

So, I mean, it’s not. It’s not a direct route, right?

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, it rarely is. Like, if you get old enough it’s easy, I guess. Steve Jobs said it was easy to connect the dots looking backwards. Right? There’s never a straight line.

Jenn Donahue:

No, no. It’s hard sometimes to explain, like, okay, I was on active duty, I was off active duty. I started the company, I went to Afghanistan, I came back. So, there are all kinds of things that, you know what. But it’s also always growing as well. Like, it’s always looking like, how can I make myself a little bit better today?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, your clients for your engineering firm, you founded it in 2006. And I mean, Chevron, Phillips, you know, PG&E, the Tennessee Valley Authority, Bay Area Rapid Transit. I mean, so many different things that you’ve done with amazing clients. What did it take to build that and build those client relationships over time?

Jenn Donahue:

A really good mentor. It really, that’s really what it was, is I had a fantastic mentor, and he would introduce me to his clients, which was phenomenal. And so, we’d work on these projects together. And then you start to make all those relationships. And then if you have a really good client base, then you go to these conferences and they introduce you and say, hey, you need to meet this person. And all of a sudden, then it starts to grow. So, I’ve had PG&E as one of my clients for goodness almost since the beginning.

[PROMO CREDIT]

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Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Jenn Donahue, PhD civil engineer, founder of JL Donahue Engineering, former Navy Captain and Commodore, and acclaimed public speaker on all things leadership.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Jenn Donahue:

And they are fantastic clients. And they’re always referring me to others to help them out as well. And that’s really what it comes down to is how will you serve those clients and what you can do for them and showing them that, like, I will do anything for you. And, and they basically, they’ve. They’ve been graded. Just all of the introductions, you know, I helped design one of the bridges over the Panama Canal, you know, but it’s from an introduction from them.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, the mentor is critical. Every successful person I talk to has had at least one mentor or maybe many, many mentors. Yes. Over the course of their life. But some people really just struggle to find a mentor. So how did you find your mentor? How. What’s your best advice for somebody that really is seeking out a mentor? Because we mentioned earlier on entrepreneurship is pretty lonely, and a lot of people try and sort of do it on their own or they don’t have access necessarily to the network that would find them that mentor. So how did you do it and what do you recommend people do to find ideal mentors?

Jenn Donahue:

I looked for the person who is basically the best and the brightest, and I, I idolized them. I was like, this person really knows what they’re doing. You know, it’s really exciting. All the work that they’re doing, the research, like, they’re always on the cutting edge. And I just kind of bucked up the courage, and I went and I asked him, and he looked at me and he said, yeah, let’s do this. And, you know, one of the things I’ve really noticed, especially about being in the military and just being a civilian, is like, if somebody comes up to you and says, hey, would you be my mentor? Wow. Wow. All of a sudden, like, you feel an obligation.

Jenn Donahue:

And it was like, I am going to help this person to the ends of the earth. At least that’s me. Anytime somebody comes up and asks me, and I think a lot of people get. They get a little scared about going up to somebody and asking them to be their mentor.

Melinda Wittstock:

They do. I think what goes on in their head is something like, oh, my goodness, this person is far too busy, far too important. Why would they care about little me?

Jenn Donahue:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, then they don’t ask and you know, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. So, there’s no right side and at least asking. What I found, though, is the people who are the true ‘A Players’, the people who are the very best at what they do, are often the people who are the most generous. It’s the B players and C players that tend to be kind of all about themselves, which probably explains why they’re B and C players to begin.

Jenn Donahue:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

The very best person is probably going to be the most generous. 

Jenn Donahue:

I never really thought about it that way, but you’re absolutely correct. And this person is like an A plus player, but he’s so generous with his time, and he’s busy. I mean, he is really busy. But he also sees it as, like, this is my way to. To help the rest of the world, because at some point, I’m going to retire. This is my way of having a legacy with this person and helping them, helping them be better, because he also realizes, like, it’s not about him anymore.

Jenn Donahue:

Like, he’s got it. Like, he doesn’t have to worry about anything. You know, he’s trying to give back. He’s trying to make the whole world a little bit better by mentoring others.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. That’s interesting, because someone who’s really successful does start to think about legacy. And they do want to give back. People love to give. It makes people happy when they give. And some people don’t learn that. But like a lot you look at the happiest people are often the people who are the most generous.

Jenn Donahue:

Right? Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, tell me, how big is your company? How many employees do you have?

Jenn Donahue:

All in total? There’s probably about five. And I say that because I work in a consortium, which is kind of a new thing, but so like I have employees and then all of a sudden then I become somebody else’s employee. So. So it’s kind of a weird hybrid thing that there’s probably, actually there’s probably about 12 of us right now that are in the consortium. But at any one point I can be in charge of 12 people or I’m actually on a project where I’m subbing to somebody else, but they’re all my employees or I become somebody else’s employee. So, it’s a really, it’s really interesting and it’s actually really fun.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that’s interesting. So, a lot of companies these days, especially in the age of AI, are going to have fewer employees. And then there’s different people you need at different times in your business. So that flexibility…

Jenn Donahue:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

… is really, really important because sometimes the people you need at the very early stages of your business are like the business outgrows. It’s a sad thing to say, but the business outgrows them or doesn’t need that functionality anymore and not everybody can come along. And that’s tricky, I think, for a lot of entrepreneurs, especially if you have a lot of loyalty and you care about your people. Right. But then you’re in this rapid growth phase or you’re having to pivot or you’re right. But, but, but that nimbleness. You mentioned the consortium that you have the right people at the right time

Jenn Donahue:

And everybody knows and understands that. Which is, which is also very, very helpful. You know, nobody’s going to get their feelings hurt if they’re not on a certain project, you know, because they know that we call it. It’s like it’s basically on the wheel. At some point you’re going to be working on, you know, some big massive project, you know, a project so big that you can’t do it yourself, that you need that whole group. Everybody knows and understands, and we all get along really well. You know, there hasn’t been any type of backstabbing. There hasn’t been anything like that.

Jenn Donahue:

Everybody’s been extremely professional. And I think that’s also a big part of, you know, letting people into this consortium is that they know and understand. It’s like, okay, we don’t tolerate any foolishness like that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, exactly., the leadership tone is always set, you know, from the top. Right, exactly that sense.

Jenn Donahue:

Oh, yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

We’re not talking military discipline here. We’re talking about who you’re being as a CEO of a company sets the tone for everybody else. So, you speak a lot, and you have a book you talk a lot about leadership, and you have Dare to Rise.

Jenn Donahue:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, what are your biggest leadership lessons that you’ve learned along the way? Like, maybe from things that have gone wrong, you know, as much as things that have gone right. Like, what would be your best, like, top three advice in terms of being a great entrepreneurial leader?

Jenn Donahue:

One of the things that you always have to do is you just. Number one, you have to be yourself. You know, it’s something that I learned in the military. It’s something that, you know, as an entrepreneur is absolutely 100% true, because you have to be yourself. If you’re trying to be like somebody else or you think, oh, well, I’m the CEO and I need to act a certain way or I need to do this or do that, you know what people are going to see right through you. It’s probably going to start to alienate people because they’re not going to be able to trust you. And I’ve just found that you can tell the people who are just. They’re trying too hard to be somebody that they’re not, and they’re just.

Jenn Donahue:

It’s not the kind of people that you want to be around. You know, it doesn’t inspire your clients, doesn’t inspire the partners that you might have. So just be yourself. You know, be. Be the best version of yourself, but just be yourself. You know, I would also. Yeah, go ahead.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, People can really tell when someone’s being inauthentic.

Jenn Donahue:

Oh, absolutely. And in business, it’s so important because we’re talking about those relationships. It’s those relationships that are going to continue to have business. And, you know, here, if you’re trying to be somebody who you’re not, you know, that’s going to basically Destroy whatever, you know, credibility that you might have with somebody else. And I’ve seen that several times. You know, I hate to say it, there’s a couple people that I can think of right off the top of my head where it’s like, people don’t want to work with them because, you know, they know that they’re not being authentic whenever they come.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. 

Jenn Donahue:

I would also say this is going to sound kind of crazy, but do what you love. Do what you love. Yeah. There’s going to be days when it’s like, oh, I don’t want to have to do all this. Oh, my goodness, I’m going to have to do a bunch of paperwork. Okay, that’s not that much fun. But you know what? Find something that you love. It’s going to make all the difference, you know, and if you realize that, hey, whatever you’re doing is like, you know, this isn’t quite right, have the courage to make the shift and it’s going to be big, it’s going to be scary, but find something that you love because it makes all the difference in the world.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. I’m curious about this. You were obviously a U.S. navy captain in our time. Right now, we have all these attacks on DEI and so women not getting promotions or being demoted. What’s your take on that? I mean, that must be so demoralizing for so many accomplished women in the military at the moment.

Melinda Wittstock:

And, I mean, how would you advise them? I also see a lot of women, like, in glass cliff situations and, and such, What would you advise all those women who are in the Navy or the Air Force or, you know, the army at the moment?

Jenn Donahue:

You know, this is a really hard question, and, you know, there’s, there’s not a great answer, you know, because there are going to be things that are going to happen to you that you have no control over. You know, this is also the same thing in business. There are some people out there who have certain beliefs, they’re going to say certain things, they’re going to do certain things, and there’s nothing that you can do to change them or the way that they, they think or feel. And so for those that are being relieved or they’re not getting the promotions, I want you to just take stock and who you are and also just realize all the Amazing, incredible things that you’ve already done and the people that are on your side, because like I said, there are people kind of that 1% that will say and do things that are probably not correct, but there’s also 99% of people that are behind you that believe in you and will continue to believe in you. You know, we’ve heard about, you know, all of these other admirals and generals that are being, you know, relieved, but the outpouring of the people who are supporting them, that’s what really matters. That’s truth. That is cold, hard truth right there that shows the difference that you’ve made in other people’s lives. And you know what? For that little 1% that is just petty or whatever they are, that’s that 1%.

Jenn Donahue:

You need to believe in yourself and believe what the other 99% of the people are saying.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, it’s. It’s a really interesting time that we.

Jenn Donahue:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, Jenn, when you think about what’s next for you and all the different things you’re doing, what’s your vision? Where are you going to be in five years’ time, 10 years’ time? Well, but you can know where you want to be, I guess.

Jenn Donahue:

Right. You know, the reason why I laugh is, like, I never thought I was going to be where I am right now, five years ago and even 10 years ago. So, I was like, I have no idea where I’m going. It’s not that I’m rudderless, but I’m like, oh, you know, it’s like, oh, I can, you know, I’m. I’m constantly trying to improve myself, you know, and one of the things I want to do is I’d really like to speak more as a keynote speaker, because I believe that I have a message that needs to get out there so that I can help inform people of the, the challenges that they have and then, like, how to get over those more quickly. Because, trust me, I’ve had all kinds of challenges, things where I’ve screwed up. And if, like, if I can help people be just like, a little bit better by the time that they leave, like, that’s what I want to do. And if I could just get out there and just spread that message more, that’s one of the things right now that I would really love to do more of.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing. One thing that I wanted to ask you, too, and this is to do with the theme of uncertainty. When you’re in either a combat zone or a fault zone, you’re working on all these seismic hazards, and you don’t necessarily have data that’s certain, right? And so, you’re working in an uncertain environment. Okay. This is like entrepreneurship, right?

Jenn Donahue:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

When your data is uncertain, but you have to be decisive, how do you manage that?

Jenn Donahue:

There’s a couple different ways, and it depends on how quickly you need to decide. I’ve been in situations where it’s like you had to make split decisions right then, right there. And at that point, you had to rely on everything that you know, everything that has happened before, any case histories, and make the best decision that you can with the information that you have. Because there’s some times where it’s like, if you don’t make the decision, like the next 30 seconds, then you can’t. So, in that case, yes, like, mentally go through and go as fast as you can to try to make the correct decision at that point. Okay. Now that’s like a very, very, you know, limited amount of time whenever you have to make that type of decision, you know, sometimes it’s like you have, you know, the next day or whatever it might be. One of the things I always try to tell people is just take a step back, take a deep breath, and really try to gain a better perspective that’s based on facts and not necessarily emotions.

Jenn Donahue:

Separate those two out, whatever those emotions are, that’s great. But go back to the facts and really understand what that is. If you have a chance, go talk to a coach, go talk to a mentor. Talk to the people that are around you. Talk to your employees. They might have information. You know, don’t do it in a silo. If you need to make a decision and it’s really important, you know, try to bring in people.

Jenn Donahue:

Try to get those different perspectives so that you can make a better decision.

Melinda Wittstock:

That is incredibly good advice, Jenn. I want to make sure people know how to find you and follow you and all your work. I know that you’ve got a curated book of inspirational quotes. Quotes, yes. Dare to rise. And you also have a book, the Warrior Framework. So, what’s the best way to find those and follow you?

Jenn Donahue:

For the quote book, I’m giving away for free. So, if you go to DareToRise co quotes, just fill it out and it’s going to arrive in your inbox free of charge. Okay. I’m an engineer. Engineers are cheap. It’s free, so go for it. But also, you can find me on my website, which is jenndonahue.com. I’m also on LinkedIn.

Jenn Donahue:

I’m on LinkedIn all the time. Please come visit me. I’d love to hear your own stories.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Jenn Donahue:

Oh, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Jenn Donahue is the founder of Dare to Rise and JL Engineering Consultancy, a former Navy Captain and Commodore, an acclaimed speaker on all things leadership, and author of The Warrior Framework.

Melinda Wittstock:

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Melinda Wittstock:

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