881 Amanda Bernard:

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Amanda Bernard:

There’s a lot of the history and indigenous ways of knowing have been lost or destroyed. We really want to be more involved in the community than ever before. And so, I work with a lot of indigenous youth, too, and they’re so much more passionate and re instilling this pride in ourselves to learn about those ways that we’re lost. It’s old, but it’s new to settlers or colonizers so, (it’s like, teaching the other way of life that would actually benefit the people and the environment

Melinda Wittstock:

Indigenous entrepreneur Amanda Bernard is on a mission to empower native artists and business owners with an innovative e-commerce platform with no-fee online shops called Shawish Market. Now with more than 140 vendors and 800 authentic indigenous items, Shawish is boosting indigenous wealth while verifying the authenticity of the items and combatting cultural appropriation. Today she Amanda shares her vision for global expansion and how she is uplifting indigenous communities with her innovation.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward a five-time serial entrepreneur, so this podcast is all about catalyzing an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other …Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who was honored as a 2023 MIT Solver Fellow and made the Peak’s 2024 Emerging Leaders List. Amanda Bernard is a proud member of the Madawaska Maliseet First Nation and the founder of Shawish Market, a virtual Indigenous marketplace where Indigenous artists and entrepreneurs can create and manage their own online shop. Unlike other marketplaces, Shawish does not charge vendors a monthly or transaction fee making it affordable for Indigenous communities.

Amanda will be here in a moment, and first,

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Melinda Wittstock:

Entrepreneurship is a powerful force for social good, a process of education and empowerment, and a means of addressing endemic inequalities by creating and redistributing wealth to underprivileged communities.

Melinda Wittstock:

The Shawish Market is doing exactly that for indigenous communities with an innovative e-commerce platform with a no-fee structure for indigenous artists and businesses. Founder Amanda Bernard shares her inspiration for Shawish, the challenges building it, and her inspiring vision for a global exchange of indigenous wisdom and goods. We get into everything from how best to tackle cultural appropriation, provide verification of authentic Indigenous art, and uplift communities that have faced historical barriers, to what it took for Amanda to build trust and overcome skepticism among indigenous artists and attract growing numbers of customers to Shawish.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Amanda Bernard and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Amanda, welcome to wings.

Amanda Bernard:

Thank you for having me.

Melinda Wittstock]:

I’m excited to talk to you because I think what you’re doing at Shawish is so intriguing and so important. Tell us more about how it all works.

Amanda Bernard:

Shawish is a virtual indigenous marketplace where indigenous artists and entrepreneurs can create their own shop and upload their own unique items. Unlike any other marketplace, Shawish does not charge vendors a monthly or transaction fee. So that makes us really unique as well. We tried to tackle the issue of culture appropriation, as you may be aware, and also the general public, but there’s a big issue with fake indigenous art being out in the. In the markets. What we do is we verify each artist to ensure that every purchase made on the website is directly benefiting an indigenous artist.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. That is so important. I understand why you wouldn’t want to charge fees.  Given, given the history here and given the disadvantage already. And so how does the enterprise work?

How does it make money?

Amanda Bernard:

We don’t charge vendors any fees, but we actually charge the customer a 7% transaction fee. And they can see that when they check out. And it’s very clear on the website that that’s the approach that we take. But also, we are starting to include additional customization options and paid premium features for the vendors. So, it will always be free for them, but they can opt into choosing, like, additional customizations on their storefront that will come with a cost.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so how many vendors do you have now using your platform?

Amanda Bernard:

So currently Shawish has over 140 indigenous vendors and they’re located all across Turtle island. So, in Canada and the USA as well. We currently have over 800 authentic indigenous items on our website.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing. So how long have you been doing this?

Amanda Bernard:

We actually just launched in August 2022. So, it’s been about almost two years.

Melinda Wittstock:

What have been some of the challenges in setting this up? Because it’s not easy to do a double-sided business. I mean, you got to attract the customers. And you’ve also got to attract the vendors. And so, tell me a little bit about what it took to get it. Get it up and running, first of all.

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, first of all, I have a lot of friends who bead or do a lot of indigenous arts, and I noticed that they were also talented, but the general public was unaware of their art. So, I wanted to bring attention and support to these artists. And so, I wanted to develop a platform that was catered to their needs, so a platform that was designed by and for indigenous people. I really started to reach out to different friends and the communities that I work with to discover what their issues were. And based on that feedback, we developed the platform, Shawish market. And at first, what I had done to gather vendors was just outreach to them on different social media platforms.

Amanda Bernard:

But currently we have such a large following base that it’s shifted towards them coming to us instead of me out to them.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, Amanda, you had to reach out to a lot of people that you didn’t know organically on social media and tell them about it. And I’m sure people were excited, you know, to be acknowledged. And was it pretty simple from there to just get them onto the platform? Like, did you have any, did you have to do a lot of sales or persuasion or. They’re just kind of like, ‘I’m in’.

Amanda Bernard:

There were a few vendors that were excited. And then, on the other hand, there were a few vendors that were skeptical, which is understandable. We were a very new platform, and there’s a lot of fraud that is happening today. So, it did take a lot of trust building at first. And the way that happened was just having, like, building relationships with those vendors and working with them. Sometimes I would even have to upload items for them and just walk them through the process of creating a shop. But after, like, the first year, it started to seem like a lot of vendors were coming to me with their additional issues and problems that they wanted us to address. And for example, based on the suggestion of elders, we actually started to implement a trade feature onto Shawish.

Amanda Bernard:

So now indigenous and non-indigenous people can trade just like our ancestors did.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s so inspiring. What I love about this story, too, is, apart from its authenticity and what you’re doing for the indigenous populations all over, I mean, just the economic development inherent in it is wonderful and very inspiring is that you’re co creating with your customers, which is something that a lot of entrepreneurs don’t necessarily do very well. And so, you’re taking their feedback and really creating the product that they want.

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, exactly. I really wanted the platform to be for them. Right. And I wanted to raise them up and give them those support that they weren’t receiving anywhere else. So, it’s really, really for them, made by and for indigenous people.

Melinda Wittstock:

Ah, that’s fantastic. You know what’s funny, though, is when you mentioned the skepticism, you know, that people have, and you’re saying to them, well, this is free for you. Like, what’s there to lose? Do you know what I mean?

Amanda Bernard:

Like, yeah, of course.

Melinda Wittstock:

Because sometimes when something’s free, people have this reaction like, oh, that’s too good to be true. Is that, is that a little bit of what you encounter?

Amanda Bernard:

Exactly. Exactly. I had to. I think when you hear about the platform through your friends, it’s more trustworthy. But when it was, sometimes it was just me outreaching to them and saying, hey, it’s completely free. Then, yeah, they’re a little bit concerned. There’s also a lot of, like, fraud happening on different marketplaces. In, let’s say, on Facebook, I’ve seen, like fake, I guess fake artists create accounts and try to sell items and then receive the money and actually don’t send the item out.

Amanda Bernard:

I think the indigenous community is very well aware that those things are happening outside of the marketplace.  It’s just natural to be concerned when I’m here being like, yeah, no, fee for you.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, most of the vendors were trying to sell on Instagram, Facebook. Were they like, on Etsy and such as well, yes.

Amanda Bernard:

And so, like, either Shopify, some had their own websites, but if you have your own website, there’s like a $40 monthly fee. And Etsy, they charge about 11 to 12% per transaction fee. And if, if you know anything about indigenous beading, it can take a long time just to be, like, one item. So, I wanted to remove the pressure from these indigenous artists to build a large inventory just to cover their monthly expenses, and I wanted them to be able to take breaks when they needed.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, on the customer side of this, how did you build awareness to get people coming to the other side of the market, getting, you know, on the other side of the market, getting awareness out and getting people to, to, to shop?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, it’s come naturally, I would say. With, with Instagram growing, we have about 11,000 followers right now. It seems that nonindigenous people are just coming across our content and following us, and then that leads to sales. But what was surprising was I recently did a survey, and when I started Shawish, I initially thought that most of the customers would be indigenous people, but it turns out that most of the customers are actually not indigenous.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so that was an unexpected, an unexpected thing. And that’s great. And the customers are willing to pay those fees. Yeah, it’s interesting because what you’re doing is you’re sort of changing the balance kind of economically. What’s your ultimate vision for this? How big do you think it could be?

Amanda Bernard:

Well, I want to continue to tailor the website to make sure that accommodates a vendor’s needs. But I, in the future, I’m envisioning a platform which includes indigenous people from across the globe. So indigenous people from Africa or from, like, where else?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, from Australia, It’d be wonderful to bring all these communities together, in a way. Is there a growing community around this? Do the vendors kind of get to know each other and such?

Amanda Bernard:

Yes. So not only do they get to learn about each other through the website, but we actually are hosting certain events to get them together to communicate with one another. In 2025, I’m hoping to do a different, like a fashion show in person. And with that fashion show, I also don’t want to have vendors pay any fees, but it’s really to get, like, their artwork out there and for them to learn about one another and just support one another.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s so interesting how social change really happens economically in the end, right. That I’ve always believed that entrepreneurs, and particularly female entrepreneurs, are particularly adept at taking businesses that have a social impact and through commerce, through entrepreneurship, in essence, changing the world. Was that always really the motivation?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, it was like, to not only, like, uplift their spirits, but also, like, change the way e-commerce works right now, because right now there’s just so many fees. And I was aware of that because I had a small business before, and I realized that all these hidden fees could really, like, be the death of a small enterprise. So, I was trying to really change the way that the e commerce like platforms operate.

Melinda Wittstock:

You’re innovating on a number of different levels, and so what kind of money did you need to start this? Was this bootstrapped, or did you get funding, or how did that work?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, so initially, I was putting my own money towards the platform, but shortly after, I actually received quite a few grants that were able to help build the platform itself and just could make it continue operating.  I’ve received grants from the Toronto Art Council, indigenous youth roots. There’s a lot of indigenous organizations that we want to support, and it seems like I’m very impressed with how much support that I’ve been receiving from communities, from large organizations or foundations. They’re all trying to outreach and support. So, of course, funding will. It’s always an issue to gather more funding, but so far so good.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, what’s the underlying technology that you have here? Is it proprietary? Is it something that you’ve completely built on your own that’s different? Or is it? Or. Tell me a little bit about the platform, the technology that underpins it, of course.

Amanda Bernard:

So, yeah, the technology is actually what also makes Shawish unique. We work with a developer who has built the website from the ground up. And that’s what also makes us stand out, is that we can actually implement all these changes that vendors are requesting and a lot of different websites, you can’t do that because there’s boundaries or limits that you can do with Shawish. Like, it seems like the world is our oyster. Like, anything that they request, we can make it happen.

Melinda Wittstock:

Amazing. So, tell me a little bit about the name Shawish. What does Shawish mean?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, yeah, of course. So, Shawish. Well, I’m actually very privileged to know that Shawish was my original last name. And when ancestor. When settlers came to Canada, they made my ancestors change their name. And at that time, they chose the last name Bernard because that was the name of their favorite priest.

Amanda Bernard:

So, it came as a shock. Yeah. The longest time I didn’t know what, like, where Bernard came from, and I was sitting with my nana a few years ago, and she was able to, like, build out a family tree, and she at that time was showing me that my ancestors were Shawish. And then all of a sudden, he just changes to Bernard. But, yeah, I’m very fortunate to be able to know that.

[PROMO CREDIT]

Wings of Inspired Business is brought to you by the new podcast, Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets. Join me together with Steve Little – serial entrepreneur, investor and mergers & acquisitions maestro – as we explore the little-known 24 value drivers that spell the difference between a $5m business, and a $50mm even $500 mm business. That’s Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets, produced by Podopolo Brand Studio at zerolimitsradio.com – that’s zerolimitsradio.com and available wherever you get your podcasts.

Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Amanda Bernard, founder of the indigenous e-commerce platform Shawish Market.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Melinda Wittstock:

Gosh, all right. I mean, it’s incredible when we think of the history, but also the ignorance of so many people, you know, about the history. So, it’s really an opportunity through all of this to educate people, I imagine, as well.

Amanda Bernard:

Yes. And that is something that I strive to do, too. Even within our social media content, we try to, like, teach the public about different indigenous teachings and the culture and traditions. And indigenous traditions are different from, like, from each tribe. I try to incorporate the best as I can. But it’s also a great learning experience for me because I’m not an expert, let’s say, from the tribes in, like, America. So, it’s a learning experience for us all, but it’s awesome.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, honestly, there’s so much about our western culture that could really use indigenous wisdom, and increasingly, I think people are open to this. So, like, I’ve always been amused by, you know, people calling it new age, when actually, it’s really ancient old wisdom that a lot of the problems that we have now were figured out previously, and we’re working just fine until. What’s your perspective on that in terms of just a lot of the problems we have in our society? Like, they’re just so seemingly glaringly obvious in a lot of ways. Like, just the inequities and there’s so many different issues. Right. And there’s so much indigenous wisdom that has been lost but is sort of re. It feels like it’s reemerging. Right? Yeah, we all, like western, you know, the descendants of all the colonists, you know, could really benefit from.

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, I think you just hit it on the nail. Like you mentioned, I think there’s a lot of the history and the, like, the indigenous ways of knowing have been lost or destroyed. But I can even tell with my generation, we really want to be more involved in the community than ever before. And so, I work with a lot of indigenous youth, too, and they’re just. They’re so much more passionate and re instilling this pride in ourselves to learn about those ways that we’re lost. And like you mentioned, it’s old, but it’s new to settlers or colonizers, I guess. So, it’s like, it’s the new generation coming and, like, teaching, you know, the public and, like, letting them know that, like, the other way of life that would actually benefit, like, the people and the environment and how we viewed society as one.  It’s a completely different way of life, but it’s actually more beneficial to everybody.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, 100%, because you look around at our environmental problems. And the difference in indigenous wisdom of just something as simple as no waste. Any animal killed is 100% used. The collaborative nature of it. But something you mentioned before, too, about just oneness, you know, people on spiritual growth journeys, I mean, you get to the point where you realize, oh, my goodness, we’re all connected.

Melinda Wittstock:

We’re all energy, like, we’re all connected. And more and more and more of society is kind of waking up to that fact. But it’s something that I think indigenous populations have always known.

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, exactly. And I recently heard from an elder, too, is that, like, each object would also be seen as people themselves. So, they would call, for example, rock, like, rock people, and they just put, like, a personality and each object to make you, you know, like, no one was above or below anybody. They were all equal, like, even rocks. It’s just a healthier way of life. It would make Earth last much longer if we continue to reflect and adapt those old indigenous ways of knowing.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes, 100%. I think what you’re doing is just so beautiful and inspiring. You’re getting all kinds of accolades at the moment, too, right? You’re one of the Peak 2024 Emerging Leaders. You and your company in 2023 were an MIT Solver Fellow. So, tell me about that, how you came to be honored by MIT?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah, that was. It was super exciting. I think that has been the biggest milestone for Shawish so far. We submitted a video, a three-minute pitch, and we worked with different folks at MIT, and we were selected. I think there was 34 groups selected out of 1500. So, the competition rate was pretty high. But it’s been amazing so far.

Amanda Bernard:

I’ve been able to travel across the states to spread the word about Shawish. And that was like, it’s just been so incredible. And with the Peak Emerging Leaders that was awarded to me a few months ago, I had no idea that that was, that that was coming out. I wasn’t even sure who nominated me, so it was a pleasant surprise. But the, the love that I’m feeling from the community is strong and I want to make sure that I continue to, like, vouch for them.

Melinda Wittstock:

I think that those acknowledgements are really, really helpful to have that validation, because when you get acknowledged for your work and how delightful, a surprise. Like, I don’t even know who nominated me. How amazing.

Amanda Bernard:

Thank you.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so right now, I mean, you just, on a day to day, I mean, you have a job, job for a foundation at the same time as you’re doing that. So, I have to say, how do you manage all of that? Pretty time consuming.

Amanda Bernard:

It’s difficult. Yeah, it is pretty difficult, but with Shawish, too. What’s great about it is that I don’t upload the items, I don’t do the shipping. It’s all managed by the vendors. I just make sure the website is up and running. I make sure that if there’s any questions that the vendors have, that I address them. But it’s not like I’m doing too much work on that side, because I’m not like shipping out inventory, updating products, you know, making sure everything is managed smoothly, which a lot of other marketplaces actually have to do.  I’ve been told by vendors that in order to upload items on other marketplaces, they have to reach out to them in person and then they’ll upload the items for them.

Amanda Bernard:

So, it’s a little hands-off, which is great and allows me to work at my day job, working with indigenous youth and giving them different grant opportunities to connect with their land, language, art, community. But in the near future, I am looking to shift towards Shawish at full time.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, for everybody listening, that’s as inspired as I am. Amanda, what are the best ways that people can support you? Because I can imagine you could use more capital to really grow this, especially expand globally, which is part of your vision, but also for consumers and vendors to learn more and find you and shop at Shawish. What’s the best way?

Amanda Bernard:

Yeah. So, first of all, I’m always open to the idea of having more funding or grant opportunities to help us maintain Shawish. But there are other ways that the audience members can engage. First, they can engage with our social media by either liking or following our profile, or they can even make a purchase directly on the website. And when they do so, not only are they supporting indigenous artists directly, but they’re also fighting against systematic oppression. And I do want to say that non-indigenous people can wear indigenous art. So, once again, non-indigenous people can wear indigenous art. Just make sure that you’re validating or verifying who the art is coming from.

Amanda Bernard:

Make sure that the person is actually an indigenous person. And so, besides those things, you could also spread the word about Shawish to friends, networks, or other foundations. And of course, if you know any indigenous artists, please introduce them to the platform.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Okay. I’m going to talk to you about this offline because I have an idea for you. Well, Amanda, I’m so inspired by you. Thank you so much for all you’re doing for the world, and really appreciate you putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Amanda Bernard]:

Thank you so much for having me.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Amanda Bernard is the founder of indigenous e-commerce platform Shawish Market.

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Melinda Wittstock:

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