834 Ashley Kyle Miller:

The bigger gap is really the wealth gap and understanding how you have to make your money work for you, where the pay gap’s about 80 cents to the dollar on average, much lower for women of color, the wealth gap is 32 cents to the dollar, and it goes all the way down to one penny for women of color. And this is the part where it’s like we truly cannot afford to not be investing.

That’s right, women have on average 32 cents to the dollar relative to men, and like Ashley Kyle Miller says, we can’t afford not to invest. Problem is, many women lack confidence and knowledge about money and investing. That’s why Ashley is on a mission to change all that with her business Madam Trader.

MELINDA

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m a 5-time serial entrepreneur and the CEO and founder of Podopolo, the AI-powered interactive app revolutionizing podcast discovery and discussion and making podcasting profitable for creators. I’d like to invite you to take a minute, download Podopolo from either app store, listen to the rest of this episode there, create and share your favorite moment with our viral clip sharing tool across social media, by text, or any messaging app and join the conversation with your questions, perspectives, experiences, and advice … Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together.

Today we meet a young entrepreneur who has made it her business to help women learn how to invest, create passive income, and grow their wealth.

Ashley Kyle Miller is the founder and host of the Madam Trader Podcast, sharing stories of successful women traders, investors and entrepreneurs and breaking down financial concepts into digestible pieces to provide an accessible space to improve financial literacy. And she’s now launching the companion Madam Trader personal finance course.

Ashley will be here in a moment, and first,

I know you love podcasts as much as I do, so what if you had an app that magically connected you to the exact right listens around what interests and inspires you and your friends – without having to lift a finger?  Podopolo’s AI powered recommendations and social clip sharing are just a few things that make it different from all the other podcast apps out there. Download Podopolo now – it’s free in both app stores – and if you have a podcast, get it featured on our home discover screen for free and access time-saving ways to grow your reach and revenue. That’s Podopolo.

What is your relationship with money? Do you attract it easily and spend it just as fast? Are you in perpetual scarcity, wondering where the money for your next bills will come from? Do you shy away from being on top of your numbers, your P&L and balance sheet? Are you always scrimping and saving, or are you looking for ways for the money you have to make more money?

There is a big pay gap for women but the wealth gap is much bigger, 32 cents to the dollar, so what has to change to get women to invest?

Today we talk about all the challenges, from lack of financial literacy to societal pressures to money mindset blocks.

Ashley Kyle Miller grew up on a ranch in Montana where her dad was a commodities broker, mostly hedging cattle for ranchers. Ashley became fascinated with how markets impact our lives, and how disproportionately the lack of market participation has negatively affected women. She became a trader herself before launching the Madam Trader podcast, where she shares stories of successful women traders, investors, and entrepreneurs all with practical advice to help you get going as an investor. Ashley has built a sizeable community around her podcast and now launches a personal finance course for women.

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Ashley Kyle Miller and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

Melinda Wittstock:

Ashley, welcome to Wings.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Thank you, Melinda. Happy to be here.

Melinda Wittstock:

I love talking about money with other women, but I found that often women don’t like talking about money, and your whole mission is to bring about kind of financial literacy and whatnot for women with your podcast. Tell me what was the spark that really made you take this on?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

I love talking about money too, especially with women, and we are all about normalizing that and breaking down some of the social messaging that has made it feel taboo, or off limits, or how so many of us are told it’s impolite. It’s not impolite. You’ve got to talk about it and learn about it in order to really master it and have control over your finances and ultimately your life. This came about not just from my own passion on the subject, but really through my work with T3 Trading Group. I had been with that firm for about four years as a trader counselor, working mostly with professional and both self-directed day traders. And I just kept looking around saying, “Okay, this is great, guys. Where are all the women?” And they said, “Yeah, we know, we know. We should do something about that.” And I said, “No, I’m going to do something about this.”

Initially I started just interviewing some of the successful women at the firm and sharing their stories just to make it feel more accessible and demonstrate how women really do succeed in this field. There’s so much research that shows women are better investors, they’re really good at creating a plan and sticking to it, and even just debunking some of these myths like women are risk-adverse. It’s not that they’re risk-adverse. It’s that women are very good at calculating and mitigating risk and keeping that plan that they’re following through on.

From there, we took a look at it and said, “Okay, this is awesome. Trading is really niche even for the men. Where can we really serve the marketplace here?” And realized that it should be more geared to wealth building as a whole, really breaking down the nitty-gritty of personal finance, and filling a space within the company. I’m now partnered with them for this personal finance to just reach a broader audience and help folks have some of these basic tools that are never really taught to us in school, and oftentimes we just pick up the behaviors of whomever our primary caregivers were, whether those were really well-thought-out or not. It’s an exciting proposition. It’s really fulfilling to help women and really anyone who wants to come to this platform gain the knowledge of personal finance and realize that this doesn’t have to be this big, scary, mysterious thing. We’re all really capable of tackling it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh gosh, 100%.  you’re reminding me of my Aunt Bee. She became Canada’s first female stockbroker.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Amazing.

Melinda Wittstock:

In the seventies, in her fifties.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

That’s incredible.

Melinda Wittstock:

But it was so against the odds. She was the only woman at her firm, and she had to make a market herself because the male clients wouldn’t just wouldn’t use her. So she found other divorced women and widowed women, and she became her firm’s biggest producer.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

That’s amazing.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly, very pioneering, and the fact that it’s still a bit pioneering gives me [inaudible 00:03:51].

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

You mentioned that our education system is really bereft when it comes to teaching women or men about concepts like passive income or let alone basic, personal financial skills. And so where do you perceive that women have the biggest issue? Is it just a mindset thing ultimately, or just a fear that they have to get over before they get into this? Because not rocket science, it really isn’t. What is the block?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

I think it’s two parts. It’s definitely the social messaging, the examples we’ve been told. When you’re constantly told that something isn’t for you, if you’re not good at math or even just some of these old adages, “Well, you’ll just marry someone who’s rich and they’ll take care of you.” That kind of baloney, that has a big impact and seeing whether our parents talked about money or not, were we involved in those conversations? All of that beyond our own personal comfort level, I think plays a huge role. And then it’s also the historical context. I mean, women weren’t allowed to have a line of credit in their own name until 1974 with the Fair Credit Act. When you think about it, it’s less than 50 years that we’ve had the opportunity to build wealth for ourselves. You have all of this systemic history on how credit was available, how you could access capital and being excluded from that.

It’s a catch-up game. I think we’re still in that second generation in a lot of ways where a lot of discriminatory practices that are now illegal. There’s still sort of this lingering, “Well, am I really included? Is this really for me?” A lot of it is breaking that down now that we do have the access and then just going out and searching for the answers. I think part of the social stigma too is that even though men are oftentimes not taught very well either, there’s still more of a social acceptance about talking about money, about talking about a raise and a promotion, and having a little more of the inside baseball where it still feels like, “Ooh, are we supposed to discuss this?” I mean, you look at a woman’s magazine, and most of it is about clipping coupons, and there’s a lot of shame around what happens with your money, how you spend earn, how you save.

We give a lot of airtime to the pay gap, which is still a terrible issue. It’s so disappointing that that is still so persistent. However, the bigger gap is really the wealth gap and understanding how you have to make your money work for you, where the pay gap’s about 80 cents to the dollar on average, much lower for women of color, the wealth gap is 32 cents to the dollar, and it goes all the way down to one penny for women of color. And this is the part where it’s like we truly cannot afford to not be investing. A lot of what we’re doing is just trying to bring clarity to that and how it works. Just understanding the time value of money. What is compounding interest? Why is my money safer in these long-term investments than just sitting in a bank account? It’s been interesting with inflation in the news.

I feel like there’s a lot more awareness of this now than perhaps there used to be, but it’s just giving people a sense of ease about it, where you don’t have to have that fear and shame and feel, “Oh, well, I guess I should have figured this out on my own.” Why? If you never had it broken down for you, it’s okay. Wherever you’re starting from, you can learn now and you can really get a handle on this. And it has such a tremendous impact on every aspect of our lives. It’s really fulfilling to see people get in charge of it. Much like you said with your aunt. Divorcees, widows, wherever you are in life, oftentimes these big changes are the impetus to learn more about your finances, but everyone can benefit from this.

Melinda Wittstock:

Something that you said just a moment ago about men and how they tend to talk about it with much more ease or share opportunities like, “Hey, I’m in this new stock. What do you think of that? You want to come in,” or, “I’m thinking of investing in this. Do you want to?” Do you know I mean? They have that very natural, easy kind of banter and there’s no shame or there’s nothing, no weird thing attached to that, whereas women tend not to talk about it with each other or don’t necessarily. I don’t know. I mean, how many conversations have you been in where women are sharing financial tips with each other?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Well, personally, I’m in a lot of them. I’m typically initiating them, but outside of that, yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

You’re initiating them and you’re in them. It’s your thing. But I mean, just for regular women, even though-

Ashley Kyle Miller:

No, no, I know what you’re saying. And I think this also goes back to some of these social messages. Men are told they’re supposed to be providers and producers, and so they are going to talk about these things, and it really doesn’t benefit them either to only have their value put in that category. I think there’s many aspects of breaking this down and just how we still categorize people into these gender-based roles. With women, I think there’s also this sense of politeness that you shouldn’t pry or you shouldn’t be greedy. A lot of times we don’t want to be perceived as grasping or we’ll hear things like, “why just I don’t care about money?”

Melinda Wittstock:

All those things. I think women are reticent about that. I think that really holds women back in entrepreneurship as well. I think what it means is women play a smaller game. How many women do you hear saying, “I’m building a billion-dollar business,” where that would easily, more easily come out of a man, that would easily come out of the mouth of a man than a woman. And when a woman says that, especially in front of other women, I mean, she gets the side eye.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Well, yeah. It goes back to what is considered more socially acceptable, what is deemed appropriate or the sense that I often see with women and both sides, both women sharing the sentiment and also being told is, “Well, you should just be grateful. Right? It’s enough.” And I do think it’s important to have a sense of gratitude in our lives and perspective and context. However, I think it also gets weaponized to hold people back, whether it’s women or any kind of minority. Just be grateful for what you have. Instead of saying, “Wait a minute, no, that doesn’t mean that I can’t accomplish more here and have a bigger impact.” Just letting go of any of that sense of embarrassment or shame. Easier said than done for sure. I think the easiest way to do it though is to just start trying and asking questions.

And sometimes I have conversations with friends where we share real numbers. “This is what I earned this year. This is what my net worth is sitting at.” And then sometimes the conversations are a little more vague and it’s just different ideas and strategies for negotiation or how to increase your earnings and not getting into the weeds so much. Either way, just knowing that you have someone to discuss it with. Because I think a lot of what holds us back to when we don’t have the information is just not even knowing where to begin and who you can trust to ask. Do go to whomever you feel most comfortable with, and then seeking out information, whether it’s from a woman in the field or a man in the field or whomever, just not being afraid to not have the answers already. I think a lot of times we feel like we should have already known this, and it’s okay not to.

Melinda Wittstock:

I remember that reminds me of something way back in the day when I was very young. I was a financial correspondent for the Times of London-

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Oh, wow.

Melinda Wittstock:

… in my early twenties, so I was doing company news and reading balance sheets and all that kind of stuff. I had to get good at it because I was reporting on it, and I remember there were different financial terms that would be tossed around at a news conference, and I didn’t understand, and I was like, “How could I write about this if I don’t understand?” So it took all the, oh, I don’t know. I had to overcome fears to put my hand up and say, “What is that financial term? What does that actually mean?” And thinking, “Oh man, everyone’s going to think I’m an idiot or I’m a fool for not knowing this.” That kind of stuff. But I did it anyway. And what was the most confidence boosting thing was that every other journalist in the room, and they were all men, all wrote down the answer because they didn’t know either.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Wow, isn’t that amazing?

Melinda Wittstock:

It was such a huge lesson for me. So I’m never afraid to ask anything of anyone ever, ever.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

I love that. And I think so many of the successful entrepreneurs that I admire do the same thing. I think about people in my own network where they’re not afraid to look dumb or to not know. They ask the people that do know, and it’s hilarious to me that most of the men writing it down too. I think there’s a lot of bluffing that goes on in this space where people act like, “Oh, I’ve got it figured out.” But finance can be incredibly simple at its basics, but get very complex the further along you go, and nobody knows all of it. I think having that open mindset is definitely helpful.

Melinda Wittstock:

I think sometimes I wonder whether it’s made complex, just economics or things like that. It’s made complex to make people who are experts in it feel like experts, when it’s actually not that complex.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Oh, for sure. Some of the jargon. It’s definitely meant to be exclusionary, 100%. At the basics of it, it really requires about a fifth grade level of math. It’s not that complicated. But if you want to get into some really advanced strategies and things, there’s all kinds of rabbit holes you can go down, but at its core, it doesn’t have to be that complicated.

Melinda Wittstock:

There’s so many instruments that are really interesting. I mean, one that I used not so long ago was a difference between a term life insurance policy and a whole life insurance policy.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Oh, yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

Insurance policy is amazing. You can borrow against it. It’s basically tax-free.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

You can annuitize it in retirement.

Melinda Wittstock:

So if you want to buy a house at some point, you start putting money into whole life policy, you want to borrow. I mean, there’s so many different things and it just makes so much sense. And so just to think about that and think, “Oh, well, I think I’ll just contribute to those for my kids.” But that’s not really widely known because the insurance industry doesn’t really publicize that fact. They would prefer you to be, it’s more advantageous for them, profitable for you to be in a term life, things like that.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Yeah, it’s interesting. My very first job in finance, actually when I was 19, was a college financial representative with Northwestern Mutual, and I was selling whole life insurance. Here I was barely 20 and buying whole life insurance, which seemed crazy, but now I’m really glad that I have it. And it was sort of an inside baseball move where it was like, “Oh, I wouldn’t have even known about this product had I not gotten this job.” And I do think they do, at least at that time, push it somewhat. A lot of people discourage it until you are further along in your finances, which I think if you’re someone who has a lot of high interest debt or something, probably term is just fine for you for now, and you can get to that later on. But there are all kinds of wonderful ways to set yourself up for success that aren’t necessarily common knowledge beyond just, “Oh, I guess I’ve got this 401K that I should fund,” there’s this match amount even that sometimes people don’t really understand what’s going on.

And anyone listening, please make sure your 401K is actually funded. I hear that story a lot too, where you’re contributing, but you didn’t actually select a fund so you’re not really invested. And sadly, that money’s just sitting in cash. But there’s all kinds of things you can do to set your kids up for success. You can have custodial accounts and just giving them more time to accumulate and have that compounding interest work in their favor. Definitely some great tools out there that aren’t incredibly complicated, but it’s just a matter of knowing they exist and then having the consistency with your contributions through up markets and down markets.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, even 401Ks, I’ve come to realize that aren’t necessarily the best because you put all your money into it and you think of the rate of growth, and then you get this massive tax bill at the end, and just when the thing is really motoring, you got to stop.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Yeah. Stop putting into it, yeah. And that’s where diversification is so important. You can’t have all your eggs in one basket. I mean, I think my generation’s not going to see very much from social security, and depending on when you started with your 401k, that may or may not be enough. That’s where I think entrepreneurship ultimately helps everyone, whether it’s getting into real estate or starting your own business or partnering and things. Just having those diverse incomes really makes a big difference.

Melinda Wittstock:

A lot of people are afraid of debt and for good reason in many cases, like credit card debt is not great and such, but there are times when debt is actually very, very helpful and times where it is not. And there’s certain things that make sense to get into debt for, things that are going to give you leverage, like investing in a business, for instance, that borrowing is going to create an asset and grow that asset. But getting in debt for a vacation, for instance, or just discretionary is not a good idea. What do you teach folks in terms of debt? What’s the right type of debt?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

I think the biggest distinction besides what you said, what are you using this for is key, right? Absolutely. Is this something that’s leveraging an asset, a cash flowing asset that I’m going to be able to pay it back and grow with this? Or is this just because it’s a nice to have situation? Beyond that, you’ve got to really look at high interest debt versus low interest debt. High interest debt is the kind that really cripples people. Most often, this is credit card debt. Credit cards are accruing daily, which is why they balloon so quickly. And for a lot of folks, I feel like there’s tremendous shame that’s put out there by some of the old guard around this of like, “Oh, you should have just been more responsible and known better.” But a lot of people get into trouble with these because honestly, they have some kind of an emergency, car breaks down, medical emergency, they’ve lost a job, what have you, and where can you turn?

This is a really accessible line of credit. I would say the problem arises even before that of just being prepared for the future and having an amount of money in a high yield savings account for emergencies. Three to six months is what’s commonly suggested. I think it really varies depending on an individual’s situation, but if you have that money set aside, then you can even allocate some of that for these expenses that come up like, “Oh, I’ve got a destination wedding. Gosh, I’ve got to go. It’s my best friend.” Whatever. Okay, well that’s not going on a credit card. I’m going to take some out from this emergency fund and then I’m going to refill that emergency fund, build that back into my budget.

That distinction is huge. And then with other forms of debt, I think it’s exactly what you said, if you’re using this to build a business, well, your business is being started with the goal of being profitable, right? No one’s starting a business thinking, “Oh, this is going to fail in a year.” No, we want this to succeed and thrive so being really smart about that, I think a lot of times I’ve seen with friends and colleagues, people getting into situations where they think, “Oh, I’ve got to get funding. I’ve got to get funding.” Well, what are you getting the funding for? Being really intentional about it is also, I think, as important as knowing the terms of your loan.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes, exactly. You’re starting, very soon, a personal finance course also called Madam Trader, like your podcast. Tell me a little bit, give us a sneak preview of what that course is going to be about. Who’s it for, and tell us all about it?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

We’re so excited. Our Wealth Foundations course is premiering later this summer, and this course is really designed for anybody who wants to take charge of their finances, has felt a little intimidated or unsure where to start. We really begin with that mindset. What is money and how does it work, and what are my values around it? How do I value allocating my money? Not how my parents feel, not how my partner feels or my best friend, but what is meaningful to me? Because a lot of times we get into trouble because we are spending out of alignment with our actual values, and once we figure out what’s important to us, we’re able to set some goals and then it’s so much easier to follow through on them. For myself, I have a long history in the fitness industry, and it’s so interesting how much they parallel.

And I know I saw, I think you like yoga as well. Our health is such an important part of our lives, and it’s pretty easy to recognize I have one body, I got to take care of it. Our financial health is just as important. And really it takes a similar approach. Having this clear mindset, being consistent with these small steps and then seeing it grow. When you start training for a marathon, it feels like it’s so far away, but then week by week you get your miles accumulated and all of a sudden you’re running it. And the same thing happens with your financial goals. We’ve really set up this course to be incredibly approachable. There’s no shame around it. Wherever you’re starting from, you can learn something from this, whether you’ve been at it for a while or you’re just beginning. Taking that mindset and then really applying it in a very practical way, taking a hard look at your cash flow, understanding where your assets and liabilities lie.

And then the thing that we do that is different is a lot of personal finance stops there where they say, “Okay, you understand what you’re spending on. This is what you have to cut out, and that’s it.” And that can feel really restrictive and really just a bummer. It’s like going on a diet, “Oh, okay, what can’t I have?” When really it’s meant to support your goals so then we take it a step further of, “Okay, we’ve figured out what’s important to us. We understand how we’re using our money. We know we need to be invested. Now, how else can I keep increasing my earnings?” Because I think so often we get stuck where we’re in positions that just aren’t going to really support the life we want to live so figuring out what else you can do to bolster that up and really gain control of your time and not be stuck.

Melinda Wittstock:

And for entrepreneurs, this is a really challenging one for a lot of female founders. When you’re starting a company, it’s very easy to not pay yourself, right? You’ve got to invest in team members, you got to invest in so many different things. You got to figure out when you can actually afford to hire people, all that kind of stuff. There’s a lot of entrepreneurial poverty like sure, you’re creating-

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

But how do you advise walking that line? Because I’ve seen a lot of women create a great asset and get funded by venture capital and then end up pretty much with nothing.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Yeah, that’s so true. I mean, I think that goes back to also knowing what you’re getting funding for and who your partners are, right? Because sometimes you don’t need venture capital. Sometimes you just need a line of credit that you can access depending on what your product is and how you’re scaling up. For myself, before launching this, I made sure that I had enough in that savings where I said, “Okay, I’m comfortable for this much amount of time.” And sometimes we don’t have that lecture. You’ve got to get a product to market and be getting some revenue in sooner than later.

I built it into my plan to know that I’m going to need some time for this to get going, but then also giving myself some firm deadlines. I think if you don’t give yourself those mile markers of launch dates and X amount of revenue, then it’s easy to kind of burn through what was saved up and not move to the next phase. It’s tricky. It’s a balancing act. It’s timing. It’s having not just the right partners, but also a right marketplace and what’s going on there when you launch. A lot of factors outside of your control, but I think within your own control, just again, being really intentional and thoughtful about your plan so that you can follow through on it.

Melinda Wittstock:

I’ve been surprised by how many female entrepreneurs that I’ve mentored over the years also have issues around money in their business.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Fascinating.

Melinda Wittstock:

You have a sales background, but I see a lot of women spending a lot of time planning for the sale, but not actually asking for the sale, or sometimes forgetting to send the invoice or not knowing their numbers, all that kind of stuff.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

It’s wild.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s astonishing in a way, because business, the numbers tell the story.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s partly an education issue, but is it mostly a mindset issue?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

How do you address that for women? Because it’s the same, it sounds like. It feels like it’s the same issue that prevents just women talking about their personal finances kind of extrapolates out into-

Ashley Kyle Miller:

You nailed it. It’s both. It’s definitely, I think there is, sometimes you get a new entrepreneur where they perhaps don’t have a business background and as much comfort going through the finances as somebody who was already in that world. But a lot of it is the same social messaging and being afraid to ask for the sale, like you said, or just owning your value in it. I mean, one of the things that I have taken away from my years and years in sales is not everybody’s your customer. That’s okay. You don’t want everybody to be your customer, so you don’t need to feel bad and chase that person. You don’t need to lower your prices or beg for this person to come to you. The people who your value proposition are a good fit for are going to pay you. You have to stay firm with that and really own it.

You are incredibly capable. You wouldn’t have been starting this business if you weren’t so just recognizing that if somebody doesn’t get this, that’s okay. The people that do get it are going to pay me for it, and I have to ask for that and own it and let go of any sense of, “Ooh, is it too much?” Or, “Oh gosh, am I being greedy here?” No, you’ve done your market research. Your customer’s going to give you a lot of feedback. Your pricing will probably pivot over the years and with different products and offering. But initially, I think it’s just owning that you are in business and this is how business works. You provide value, you are compensated for it, period.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, there’s so much to talk about. I want to invite everybody to make sure that they listen to your podcast. And of course-

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Thank you.

Melinda Wittstock:

Listen on Podopolo, because that’s my platform. It’s interactive, it’s AI powered, there’s lots of ways to interact with podcasters and their listeners through all our interactive tools, including social clip sharing. And so I would love to be able to interact with you over on Podopolo, Ashley.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

Make sure we listen to your podcast there. And also join us in the Wings episode comments section, and wishing you lots of luck with your class. How will people be able to find out about your course? It’ll launch after this episode airs, so what’s the best way?

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Absolutely. So you can find it at madamtrader.com.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wonderful, madamtrader.com. Okay. And that’ll be in the show notes and such. But thank you so much, Ashley, for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Ashley Kyle Miller:

Thank you for having me. I’ve enjoyed flying with you.