655 Faith Jones:

Ever found yourself working for free or underpaying yourself as an entrepreneur? Overdelivering for a client? Underpricing your services? Or simply putting your own needs behind everyone else’s? The beliefs we’ve all internalized about our value as women – can keep us playing a smaller game in business. So what can growing up in a dangerous doomsday cult tell us about our challenges as women? Faith Jones is an accomplished lawyer, entrepreneur and cult survivor with a must-read memoir called Sex Cult Nun – and today she shares her “I Own Me” framework for empowerment and freedom.

MELINDA

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business. Here on Wings if you’re new to the podcast we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies and practical advice from successful female founders as well as my own ups and downs as a five-time serial entrepreneur … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams.

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who was raised as part of an elite religious army preparing for End Times. Faith Jones’ grandfather was the founder of Children of God, a cult that became notorious for its alarming sex practices and allegations of abuse and exploitation. Somehow Faith found a way to educate herself and break free of the cult, rising up to be a corporate attorney with Skadden Arps in Los Angeles and Hong Kong, representing the founders of Skype Technologies in obtaining a $500 million earn-out from eBay Inc. among other big deals, before founding her own law practice, focused on advises entrepreneurs and business owners in corporate and financial strategy.

Today we’re going to talk about her extraordinary book, Sex Cult Nun, and how her journey to empowerment provides a unique lens to explore societal norms of oppression, abuse and disempowerment, as well as our rights in our bodies as women – and ownership of our finances.

Faith will be here in a minute, and first:

If you love podcasts, and wish you had a podcast concierge who knows what you love, serving you with the exact right new listens for your interests and tastes, then check out Podopolo. It’s the new app that makes listening personalized and social – with 4.5 million audio and video podcasts at your fingertips with an easy way to share and discuss with friends. Listen to Wings on Podopolo, connect with me there, and if you have a podcast, claim it for free to grow your reach and your revenue. That’s Podopolo – free to download in either app store.

And there’s a new podcast in the mix on Podopolo I’m keen to share with you because it is co-hosted by my inspiring EA Priscilla Salvador and her partner Indira. You won’t want to miss Energy on Purpose – if you’re ready to close the gap between your current – and desired reality. Meet Indira and Priscilla.

Priscilla and Indira are on a mission to normalize energy medicine, manifestation, neuroplasticity and the untapped potential of the subconscious mind to empower womxn – just like you – to be, do, and have everything you desire! That’s Energy on Purpose – on Podopolo and anywhere you get your podcasts.

She’s an Attorney, Author, Activist, Inventor, Business Advisor, and a cult survivor. Faith Jones has lived a life nothing short of extraordinary, so it’s not surprising she would emerge with an extraordinary memoir and blueprint for how women can step into their feminine power with full agency. Today Faith shares how we as women can claim our innate power in business and personal relationships, in full control of our decisions, creations, businesses, and bodies – overcoming societal systems and laws that have prejudiced our true empowerment for centuries.

Today Faith breaks down everything she’s learned as a cult survivor, international corporate lawyer, a Top 40 Under 40 Mergers & Acquisitions Deal Advisor, humanitarian aid worker in Japan, Kazakhstan, and Taiwan, an executive coach, and an inventor – yep, she has a patent on the Personal Air Filter device, a non-mask, wearable air filter for polluted areas.

Listen on to learn her “I Own Me” framework for your empowerment, financial freedom, and impact, and of course a preview of her soon to be bestselling book Sex Cult Nun.

​Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Faith Jones.

Melinda Wittstock:

Faith, welcome to Wings.

Faith Jones:

Thank you so much for having me, Melinda.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, I’m excited to talk to you because there’s well, quite frankly, a lot to talk about. And I just want to start with you growing up in a cult. What were some of the biggest takeaways or learnings that shaped your life from the time that you left that cult?

Faith Jones:

That’s a very good question. I think, well, first of all, I think it’s important to understand a bit about the cult itself. It was called the Children of God and it was actually founded by my grandfather. And some of the core beliefs were an apocalyptic end time preparing for that isolation from society, and a form of Christian communism where you didn’t own anything really yourself. Everything was supposed to be given to God, your body, your family, your children, all of your possessions. But of course that really meant the group or the leaders. And then there was an element of, they would’ve called it sexual freedom, but in any place, when you have freedoms and you combine them with manipulation and control, then you have abuse.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So in the name of freedom, there was a control or an ownership in effect over everyone’s bodies, thoughts, emotions, minds.

Faith Jones:

Yes. Yes. And in many ways, it’s very similar to being in an abusive relationship, domestic relationship, where you are controlled and manipulated through fear of punishment, gas lighting, love bombing and it all plays together to manipulate people’s behavior. And so when I left the group, I left because I actually really wanted to go to college and education was frowned on. We were sporadically homeschooled. I actually put myself through high school with a correspondence course. And so when I left the group to go to college, as I participated in regular society, my perspective expanded and it took some years before I could stand in a different location and look back. Mentally where I could look back and be like, oh wow, that’s wrong. Or these times when I was being coerced into having sex with men I didn’t want to, that was rape, right. These times when I experienced as a child sexual advances from adults, that’s child abuse. And so being able to look back on those things and see them for what they were, that I think was one of the really difficult things to do.

Melinda Wittstock:

I can’t imagine the pain you must… Because as you’re going through this as a child and you’re growing up in this, this is sort of normal, I guess. Right?

Faith Jones:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

And presumably, and your parents are there and it’s normal for them too. And this is all you know.

Faith Jones:

Yes, exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

But as it begins to dawn on you what actually happened, I can only imagine layers and layers of, I don’t know, I guess the pain that came with that. I’m trying to put myself in your shoes and trying to understand just the layers upon layers upon layers of what you had to walk through to get where you are now.

Faith Jones:

Yeah. And that’s one of the reasons I wrote the book because I think it’s so hard for people who haven’t lived through something like that to understand what it was like to be in there, the good and the bad. What was the impact on your psychology and then leaving, how those realizations came and the emotions came and how that took place. I think it’s hard for people to understand that. So that’s one of the reasons I wrote the book is to help show that and help people to get a feel for that.

But it’s also one of the most important things I discovered was the foundation for this framework. I call it the 10 golden principles of integrity. I’m still trying to come up with a good name for it, but it’s really the foundation of everything that we consider moral, ethical, it’s our fundamental human rights. And for a long time, I didn’t understand how people in the group, many of them were very idealistic, right? They were very dedicated to God. They were willing to sacrifice enormous amounts for this vision and this mission of serving God and helping others. And yet they were capable of submitting to, and even perpetrating terrible abuses, based on what they believed and following these leaders’ direction and writing. And so I was like, what was the core? Where did they go wrong? What was the core lie that they had to believe to go down that path?

And it’s actually the core lie that exists in all abusive societies, whether it is different types of cults, different types of abusive religions, communism, all of these organizations, they perpetuate the belief that you do not own yourself. That somehow you do not have a full property right in your own body. You belong to the state, right. Or you belong to the group or you belong to God, but who is God’s representative telling you what to do?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, rather than empowering people, they’re disempowering people in the end, taking away all your agency, in effect.

Faith Jones:

Exactly, exactly. It’s taking away your agency, but it goes a step further when you give over your sense of ownership, right. Your property right, your sense of self ownership. You’re also giving over your sense of moral responsibility because you’re saying I’m not responsible because I don’t own myself. I’m just doing what I was told.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, so then almost anything could be justified.

Faith Jones:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

In a system like that. So, this is interesting that you raise this connection between, say, authoritarian regimes, like say a communist or a fascist regime where people are pulled together by some sort of ideal…

Faith Jones:

Ideology.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. They perceive as bigger and more powerful than themselves and it unites them and gives them purpose. And in a case of a cult, sort of the same thing. And that, in giving all that over, all of a sudden, anything is possible. It explains so much, this connection. And you can see that happening. I see where you’re going, and in terms of that can happen in any organization or in a marriage.

Faith Jones:

Yes, absolutely. And that is when it’s not based on… All interactions, relationships, contracts, business relationships, they all have to be based on free, willing acceptance of the terms. So there’s five elements that are a part of any enforceable contract that we understand in law. But these elements that were written into law as part of contracts actually existed prior to that because we understand that if any of these are missing, you have created a violation of somebody, right? So if someone’s not clear on the terms of what they’re agreeing to, if they didn’t actually accept the terms willingly, if they didn’t have the mental ability to understand, they were a child, or they had dementia. Or if they submitted to it based on what we call undue pressure, where somebody is applying significant pressure so they can’t really make a free choice. Right. In crimes, we call that blackmail.

Okay. And in personal relationships, it’s often manipulation. It could be guilt. It could be peer pressure, lies which in the law, we call that fraud. So there’s this link between how we operate in relationships. And when you have a situation in a cult or in an organization, they’re not abiding by those rules of the relationship. They’re violating it. Whether they’re using coercion, manipulation, undue pressure, they’re not giving people all the facts, right? All of these situations, you’re violating that ring, which I call the deal. And that’s one of the big ways cults violate people. But it’s much easier to do that if you have them turn over their sense of ownership, right? So when you have organizations, let’s look at the Nazis for instance, right? When we look at Stalin and communism and all of these countries where they wiped out huge portions of a population, and they did not believe that each individual had a moral property right in their own body. It’s the same with slavery.

This is why we cannot own other people. Only the person whose body is allowed to own it because we recognize this inherent moral right of self-ownership that cannot be taken away. So when you have companies, countries, organizations that ignore that right, or expressly say, this doesn’t exist. You belong to the state, right. Then they justify mass crimes and violations based on a concept of the greater good. Well, we should kill this section of the population because it’s for the greater good. And that to me is just… Every time I hear that argument, I immediately know somebody’s about to violate somebody else because when we are not standing in each person has their own individual rights, property rights, and the ability to exist without being harmed or violated. And we are saying, we get to violate these people for the greater good. Then we’ve stepped off that. We’re already into that territory.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s really interesting listening to you and just given what’s going on in our society at the moment, just even with all the division and disinformation and this, what’s becoming a hatred between red and blue, say.

Faith Jones:

Yes. Yeah. And it’s really disturbing to watch it as someone who actually did grow up in and lived in communist countries. I lived all over the world. I lived in [inaudible 00:12:54], China spent some time in Russia, Kazakhstan, Japan. I’ve seen many different cultures and I’ve lived in these countries and I’ve seen what happens. I’ve seen the results, right. And it’s not the results of the type of society that we would want to live in. So to me, our fundamental right is that’s what the founding fathers were talking about. When they said I have an inalienable, means it cannot be taken away from me, right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I get to choose what I do with my life. And I have the right to liberty, as long as I’m not violating someone else’s rights.

Right. And that was their rebellion against the king’s ownership of them because the king, if the king owned them, the king could come and just take away their land without any reason, could throw them in jail, could kill them. There was the sense of the king’s right to rape the wife on the wedding night. So that was all this sense of imposing a sense on other people that they don’t own themselves, that they are property, cattle. And so that was what America rebelled against. That was what America was founded on, that we each have this inherent inalienable right of ownership in ourselves.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, a couple of mistakes in there, though. And you mentioned slavery, and just in terms of women, because you think about [inaudible 00:14:35]

Faith Jones:

Yes. That’s always my caveat when I talk about this.

Melinda Wittstock:

[inaudible 00:14:40].

Faith Jones:

I say that the issue that happened was that they got it. They were on the right track as far as getting the concept right. Where they failed was they did not apply it to all humans. They only applied it to white land owners and males, right. So they didn’t apply to people of color. They didn’t apply it to women. Women were still considered property. And that was the failing. But there’s a time when we make… As a society, we make a jump, right. And so that was a big jump for its time. But now we recognize, we should recognize, that everyone, even children have an inherent right of property ownership in their own bodies that should not be violated.

Every human doesn’t matter, color, race, socioeconomic status, anything. And so that is where I hope we are as a society, is that ability to recognize that. And one of the issues that we face, especially with women, is that many of these concepts were codified into our institutions and into our laws and into our practices. And so it’s one of the things that I work on is saying, and I think many, many people in this field do, is saying, what are these subconscious messages we’ve been receiving that are undermining our sense of self ownership?

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. I was just about to say that because there’s sort of an epigenetic memory, if you will, of just how women even perceive themselves. And I think turning this conversation around to say business and entrepreneurship, to think that women couldn’t even buy property on their own or have a credit card on their own 50 years ago. Right. So that’s not that long ago, really. And to now coming into our empowerment as female founders with the potential and some now really growing unicorn businesses and achieving great heights in business and in the professions as lawyers, like you, in all these different areas. And yet we still carry a lot of this memory. It still defines us. And I think for women, it’s interesting because it’s difficult to achieve something that you can’t see or you don’t actually believe about yourself. And I’m curious what you think about how out all of this history and this paradigm and all of that, of women effectively being owned, how that limits our capacity in business.

Faith Jones:

That’s a great question. From what I’ve seen, as an entrepreneur myself, and also working with women entrepreneurs, it has a huge impact. Some of the main issues I see that come from it are women… So what are the societal messages that we get that are false, that we need to be aware of? Because they sound very noble, right? That women should be compliant, should be nice, should acquiesce, should think of others comfort before their own. Well, what does this do in effect? We don’t stand up for ourselves. We don’t speak our truth. Maybe we don’t speak up when a man is touching us inappropriately and it makes us uncomfortable, but we don’t want to make them uncomfortable. Right? So there’s lots of ways that this affects us. Another one is our value. So many women are taught that, and just in the way our society values the types of services and work that are typically, historically that have been done by women, undervalues it, underpays it and women undervalue themselves.

They undervalue their own qualities, their own worth, their own value. I find so many women work for free. You see all these coaches and stuff like that. They work for free because they are taught as women, you should serve others. Your purpose is to serve others. Your purpose is to care for others. Your purpose is to help others and not ask for or want anything in return. Now this is great in a society where it’s dominated by men and they want women to just do the work and not expect anything in return, but stepping up and recognizing, wait, no, I fully own myself.

So I don’t have to do anything unless I am receiving value in return. In fact, it creates a really unhealthy environment when we, as women do that, when we don’t demand our value in return. Now, I watch this, I see this now that my eyes are open to, I see it all the time. I see these women with this wonderful heart and they’re coaches, and they go out there and they start doing all this stuff for free and coaching people and everything. Right. And I’ll talk to a man, I’ll talk to my boyfriend, and he is like, they don’t pay me. I’m not doing it. I don’t care. They need it. They haven’t paid me. Forget it. I’m not doing it, not touching it. Right. And I’m like, wow, we need to be more like that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well the other place that it shows up often is women often underprice their services or products and over deliver. So I can’t tell you more than 650 episodes in on this podcast how many female entrepreneurs that I have interviewed, who’ve had to figure out in order to succeed in entrepreneurship, have had to figure these things out. And either they have burnt out trying to be 24/7, putting everyone ahead of themselves, or they’ve done the same thing or kept playing small because they’re in perfectionism all the time or think they have to do everything or this constant thing about proving their competence, right? There’s all these different ways where that underlying sense of how much you value yourself impacts in business. Just even in negotiation, negotiating against yourself or not asking for what you want. Right.

Faith Jones:

Right. No, you’re a hundred percent right. I see it all the time. It happened to me too. I went through a time where I was doing the same thing with my services. I was just totally underpriced. I was letting other people walk all over me. And honestly, I had to go and do internal healing. And this is where healing is so important to success in your business. I had to go heal my issues around money and value and self-worth. And then as soon as I did that, I left the firm I was with, I was with started my own practice, tripled my prices and I was in a place of abundance and my clients were happy to pay for it. They were still getting a huge discount at what they pay a lawyer of my caliber anyway. So that created a huge shift for me.

Melinda Wittstock:

Every single woman that’s been successful as an entrepreneur has had to walk through that path one way or another. I know I had to as well, everybody. And I wonder about this. Do you think that also one of the things that holds women back sometimes is this fear of standing in your full light because you’re afraid it will either push men away, this whole old thing that men don’t like strong women, or being afraid of being the B word, right. Or that other women won’t like you if you dare to just stand in your or full light.

Faith Jones:

Yes. But these are all of the societal messages that we received that are false. These are examples of all of these societal messages of how women should be. And it’s all to do with don’t stand up, don’t have your own opinions, voice, intention, mission, because that’s not your role. Your role is to serve someone else. Right. Your role is to be in the back and to care for others and to support others. Right. And there’s nothing wrong with that if you really enjoy doing that. And that’s your thing, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Melinda Wittstock:

But do it consciously.

Faith Jones:

Yes, yes. Knowing that you’re doing it. Yes, yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

A conscious choice because that’s one thing, if it is a conscious choice, but if it’s completely unconscious and it is actually preventing you from really sharing with the world your God or universe given talents that are actually going to really have a much bigger impact in helping people, just by being who you uniquely are and having ownership of that, then that’s not good. And it’s so interesting on this podcast, almost every conversation comes down to awareness and consciousness, every time, right. On any conversation about entrepreneurship and so much so that we joke here often that if you want therapy, just become an entrepreneur.

Faith Jones:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

As a woman because all this stuff, it’s going to confront you in one way or another in either in repeating patterns or whatever. And the only way to really succeed is to overcome these things within your own head and heart.

Faith Jones:

Yes, absolutely. I had a wonderful coach. She’s actually also a therapist and she said, business is the spiritual path.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. No, it truly is. A couple years ago before the pandemic and I was hosting retreats for women with 7, 8, and 9 figure businesses. And often I would say in some of the marketing copy, I remember very early on or in some of the conversations for the first retreat, I’d say, hey, we’re all going to get together and figure out how to play bigger. Right. And for a split second there’d be dread or fear in their eyes, which I began to notice, even with quite successful women. What is the root of that fear? Could it be that we think we have to do it all, and I’m already busy and I’m already burning out then, oh my God, playing bigger. That’s going to kill me. Right. And on the other hand, we had this thing about, okay, well, if I really go for it, will I be basically abandoned by society? I’m not going to fit in. Nobody’s going to like me. There are all these really deep, deep fears just about that phrase.

Faith Jones:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

And it’s interesting in that context that only 3% of women entrepreneurs make it to a million dollars.

Faith Jones:

Yeah, absolutely. And to me, the core of all of those false messages, when you really dig down into that, it all comes back to this concept of not owning yourself. Not fully believing, I have a full property right in my body. I don’t owe it to anybody. I get to choose who I’m going to be, what I do, my actions, my thoughts, my emotions, my products, my services, I fully own them. And I get to pick what they’re going to be, how I’m going to serve, how much I’m going to charge, what’s value to me. When you really step into that, all of these kinds of mindsets start to shift because that was the core of what has been undermined for women.

Melinda Wittstock:

I found the more that I have done that in my life, what started to surprise me, was that people accepted it. You didn’t have to be strident about it or whatever, but it was about having boundaries. It was about knowing what you wanted and the way that’s articulated, it’s almost like who you’re being and people…

Faith Jones:

And women have some of the biggest struggle with boundaries. This chart that I have this circle, this is really circles of boundaries. Right? And that’s one of the biggest things that women are taught not to have. We’re taught not to have boundaries. And so reclaiming those boundaries saying, this is my space that I choose that you’re… I’m not going to accept disrespect. I’m not going to accept to be less. I’m not going to accept you touching me in a way that’s inappropriate. Holding those boundaries in love. We can do it in love. We can do it in power, but…

Melinda Wittstock:

Just even in your own schedule, right.

Faith Jones:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Melinda Wittstock:

There are so many folks who end up putting themselves last, even in the way they run their business. So everyone comes before them. So they end up last in their own business, rather than even though they’ve begun as the visionary, created something, say, a type of entrepreneur that creates something completely new, or a new market, or a new product that’s revolutionizing something or whatever. But if in the way that you run your business, you can’t even control your own schedule or your own time.

Faith Jones:

But where is that coming from? What is that core idea that’s coming from?

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, the core idea is that lack of value, right. Then the lack of boundary there because other people will have more value than you. Inherently, right?

Faith Jones:

Mm-hmm (affirmative) yeah. And that comes from not seeing that you have that full value in yourself without doing anything to gain it.

Melinda Wittstock:

See, this is something.

Faith Jones:

You already have it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So say if we pick your legal brain for a moment, right? Women in business negotiating a contract, or negotiating any kind of contract or any kind of agreement. Right now, I’m in the midst of a bunch of term sheets for my business, right, from investors. And in that negotiation, I’m fascinated by how this applies to something like that.

Faith Jones:

Well, what I tell people who are going into negotiation is first decide what it is you want. Already know that. Never walk in the room without knowing that this is what I want, this is what I’m worth, and I will walk away if I don’t get this. Know your bottom line.

Melinda Wittstock:

Know your boundary, right? What you’ll accept…

Faith Jones:

Don’t let someone talk you out of it or be like, well, you’re not really worth that. Let me undersell you and right? Just know what that is and be willing to walk away. That’s what gives you the strength.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely. But easier said than done. Say in the context… And I wear this hat always because I’m a tech entrepreneur, right? Where women with potential unicorn businesses, still 20 years later, get 2% of the VC money.

Faith Jones:

I know it’s unbelievable. That’s the other field that I have started to focus on in the last couple years. And this is a field that I think women really struggle with. And it also comes from the same thing, right? Women are property, they don’t own property. They don’t deal with finances. Right. All come from that same subtle societal construct or not so subtle. So women don’t step up and say, I need to understand money. I need to have control of my funding, my finances and my money. And when you don’t control that, then you are far more susceptible to manipulation abuse because… And this is one of the things in the book that I talk about because it, at one point, when I was young, my mother, we actually were outside of the cult for about a year, but we couldn’t survive.

My mother had three young children. She couldn’t make enough to support us. She didn’t have a degree. So for women who are trying to, whether it is I’m an entrepreneur and I’m negotiating a deal for myself, right. Or I am trying to get out of an abusive relationship. It all comes down to that, not all of it. Your mental ability to stand up for yourself, that’s half of it. The other half of it is having an economic foundation to fall back on, knowing that you can walk away and you’re going to be okay. That is what is critical. So for me…

Melinda Wittstock:

Financial knowledge. So we talked about valuing yourself, but there’s also a knowledge element to this as well of really understanding finance, really understanding even concepts like passive income or…

Faith Jones:

Yes. So that’s what I started to focus on. I recognize that even myself, I am a smart attorney, I’ve done deals with billions of dollars, but in my personal life, I didn’t understand investing. And I felt an internal resistance against it. All this is boring or it’s complicated, or I just don’t have the time to deal with it. Right. I had this internal resistance to understanding finance, investing. I was like, 401ks, whatever. And so a couple years ago I was like, you know what, if I don’t figure this out, I’m going to be working the rest of my life. I need to get to a place where my goal was to be able to live off of my passive income, live off of my investments. And that’s the win with money because once you can live off of your passive investments, then you choose what you do.

I can work on this. I can work on that project, but I know that my foundation is secure. That I’m okay. Right. And that gives you just so much more freedom, security, choice. So I knew that was my goal. And actually right at the beginning of COVID, right before COVID, I was like, I’m going to figure this out. I’m going to take this year and I’m going to figure this out. And so that’s where I started really digging into it and applying my brain to figuring out what’s the real deal with financial investing investments. And believe me, the traditional stuff they tell you is old news and doesn’t work anymore, not in our environment. So I actually started a group with my friends. I was like, hey, because when I learn something, I have to share it, I have to teach it.

That’s part of my personality. So I said, hey, I’m on this journey. If you want to come with me, I will teach you what I learn. And that’s how my group Financial Ninjas started. And so actually with the book, Sex Cult Nun, if you buy it off of my website, sexcultnun.com, I am giving that as a free bonus. All of these different classes and things with experts and this is what I figured out because I just think that that is so critical for us as individuals, but especially as women to have that presented to us in a way that we can easily grasp it and take action. Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

I love that. I love the name of this, Financial Ninjas. And you mentioned something that was really interesting. It mirrors my own experience. You get good in your career, business or whatever in those kind of financial terms, but then not applying it to yourself as an entrepreneur. So for instance, it could take the form of, okay, I put every single thing I have into my own business. And so as a result of that, every decision or every single thing that happens in that business impacts you personally because you have nothing else.

Faith Jones:

Yes. You’re not paying yourself first, and that’s a huge fallback.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s another thing, right?

Faith Jones:

Yeah. It’s a huge [inaudible 00:36:01].

Melinda Wittstock:

Entrepreneurs not paying themselves or not paying their due. And I’ve just noticed even in VCs put a lot of pressure often and a little bit more so on women to not be paying themselves or paying themselves enough or to suppress the remuneration in some of the terms that I’ve seen [inaudible 00:36:29], right?

Faith Jones:

Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where you’ve got to stand up and say, is this deal worth it? Is there are other people that are going to fund this better? Are there other funding sources? We can get tracked into thinking… And on the corporate side with my clients, they come to me with VCs. I usually don’t do it. I’ve seen so many bad deals and I’ve seen how the terms get twisted against the entrepreneur. And so there are cases where you have a really good lawyer negotiating on the other side for you that could help, but there’s other ways to fund things where you maintain more control.

And so being open to look into that as well is… That’s important. Finding other sources of funding… That’s an important part of the journey. And especially you may get to a certain level where you need 50 million dollars or something, and then that’s you got to bring in the big guns, but for a lot of people, there are so many things that people don’t realize they can do with finances. There’s so many strategies of how to fund things that a lot of people don’t realize.

Melinda Wittstock:

This comes down to always having great mentors and being in a group like Financial Ninjas. And I really think that women really can support each other much more. For a long time, women were in such scarcity that there was only enough space for, say, one woman, or a couple at the top. And women were competing against each other rather than lifting each other up.

And I’m seeing that begin to fade, the queen bee syndrome. But when we are actually really from a place of abundance, really helping each other with that knowledge, I think we’re unstoppable. So we’re at a interesting inflection point in a way of that. How do you see it in that sense? What can women really do for each other, different female founders to support each other on all of these issues?

Faith Jones:

I think you’re a hundred percent right. That was one of the things I noticed when I came to America about 20 some years ago, was that that was something that was quite particular to America, was how, in its culture, was how women attacked, abused, back stabbed each other, and tried to tear each other down. Right. It was more here than I saw in other countries. And that is that scarcity mindset, which I think was perpetuated by society and culture, but that scarcity mindset, instead of sisters coming together and supporting each other and lifting each other up.

And I think like you said, culturally, that’s changing a lot more. And a huge piece of that is there is more than enough. That’s the thing about good. You can always create more. You can always create more money. It’s not a set pie. There’s always the ability to create more. So you’re not fighting over one piece of it. You just go bake your own pie and we can help each other create more good. So when we shift into that mindset, then it’s a joy to help other people and to support them and to help them get where they’re going.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely right. So what was the spark around the timing of writing your book now. What was it, why now? Because you’ve done so many things, Faith, in your career. Just the transformation that you’ve been through is breathtaking, frankly. So what’s the reason for the book right now?

Faith Jones:

I’d wanted to write a book for years, but I think things happen in their time. There was a lot I needed to heal before I was ready to write it and I wanted it to have a more impactful message than just, yeah, you suffer. But work hard and keep your spirits up and you’ll make it kind of thing.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Faith Jones:

Right?

Melinda Wittstock:

There’s a lot of that one, yeah.

Faith Jones:

So when I created the framework, which is this kind of Eureka moment, I was like, oh, I get it now. It was like, everything in my life came together, all that I had gone through, growing up in an organization like that where I felt like… Where I didn’t have a right to my own body, to becoming a lawyer, to becoming an entrepreneur, all of that had to come together in that moment to create that. And, when that happened, I was like, okay, now I’m ready to write this. And that’s when everything started moving, when it happened.

Melinda Wittstock:

I feel like in this interview, we barely scratched the surface. I think you’re going to have to come back again. I have a lot more questions for you than our time allows. So, would you be willing to do that? After the book’s been out for a little bit because there’s so many big themes here that we can really break down. I’m fascinated not only by what you’ve been through, but how you’ve come through it in such a powerful way.

Faith Jones:

Absolutely. I would love to. I’d love to talk about not just these topics, but I’m also happy to come on and talk about… I do teach entrepreneurs about how to protect themselves in business and finances. So I’m sure there’s lots of conversations that we could have. And I love what you are doing, being such a powerful voice for women and helping shine a light on those that are creating and on these topics that we all need to ponder. So, thank you for that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely. So Faith, I want to make sure that everybody gets their hands on your book and you mentioned there’s a whole bunch of bonuses associated with as well which is very generous. What is the best way?

Faith Jones:

So if you go to my website, it’s called Sex Cult Nun. And that’s S-E-X-C-U-L-T-N-U-N.com. And order the book off of the website, then you’ll also get access to the bonuses. Some of the bonuses are… One of them is 15 tools for happiness, which is basically all the strategies and little techniques and ways of thinking that help me to stay positive and push through difficult times and recover from things. Another one is Financial Ninjas. It’s this video course that I’ve created of just a very different way to look at your finances and investing. And what are some of the simple things you can do that are passive and don’t take a lot of your time if you’re a busy person, but give you a good return. And just a whole new way to look at investing.

And the other one… Another one of these is, oh, the other book I wrote actually, I Own Me, which is going deeper into these topics that we talked about, about women dealing with sexual harassment, abuse, rape, child abuse, and how you apply this framework. Some of the most powerful healing exercises that you can do for yourself that I’ve used in my life that have really helped shift things for me are in that book. It’s quite a short one, but so there’s a lot there if you go to the website, but those are a few of them.

Melinda Wittstock:

Fantastic. And everybody, all the details for that will be in the show notes. So if you’re driving or running or doing something else while you’re listening to this podcast, you can just go to melindawittstock.com or to Podopolo, the podcasting app, or any of the places where you can find this podcast and get all the details of Faith’s offer. And then of course, Faith, people want to work with you. You mentioned you’re still practicing law as a concierge lawyer, and you still do a little bit of coaching, I guess, for women entrepreneurs. What’s the best way people can get in touch with you for that?

Faith Jones:

Just reach out to me at faith@faithjones.com.

Melinda Wittstock:

All right. Okay. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us.

Faith Jones:

Thank you. Thank you for giving people wings.