736 Kamini Wood:

I joke all the time on this podcast that there should be an AA for perfectionists, only it’s not really a joke. Because   I have yet to meet a woman who doesn’t suffer from some form of perfectionism. Problem is, it holds us back in life and in business. My guest today – Kamini Wood shares the power of imperfect action and why mastery and self-acceptance are the ways to success.

MELINDA

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m a 5-time serial entrepreneur who has lived and breathed the ups and downs of starting and growing businesses, currently the game changing social podcast app Podopolo. Wherever you are listening to this, take a moment and download Podopolo. Follow Wings of Inspired Business there and join the Wings community so we can take the conversation further with your questions, perspectives, experiences, and advice for other female founders at whatever stage of the journey you’re at! Because together we’re stronger, and we soar higher when we fly together.

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who helps people take the courageous steps to identify their limiting beliefs, the reasons for their stagnation or feelings of not enoughness, so they can have what they want professionally and personally to live a fulfilled life.

Kamini Wood is a certified professional coach, the creator of AuthenticMe® and CEO of Live Joy Your Way, a coaching company helping individuals shake free of their fears, unhelpful mindsets and behaviors in order to have healthy relationships and move forward on the professional path they choose.

Today Kamini shares how she has gone from a people-pleasing, perfectionist, holding herself back by playing small, into someone who recognizes her worth and sees that by embracing it she can create room for others to do the same. She is a best-selling author, holds specialty certifications in various modalities including life, wellness, teen life, conscious uncoupling, calling in the one, new money story, breathwork, meditation and diversity, equity inclusion and belonging. She is also trained in conscious parenting and coaching for children.

Ever found yourself cleaning the house before the cleaner comes? Iterating on your perfect sales plan and not asking for the sale? Waiting till you lose those 10 pounds before putting yourself out there on social media to market your product?

We’ve all been there, in fact most women feel intense pressure to show up perfect in all areas of their lives, an impossible goal that prevents us from taking the kind of imperfect action necessary to succeed in entrepreneurship or any career.

So why are we all such perfectionists?

Kamini Woods grew up in an Indian family in a predominantly white Connecticut town with darker skin and a name she says some people deemed “odd”. She says she felt intense pressure to blend in, and with hard working immigrant parents, she internalized the belief: “Work hard and people will accept you.” So, she did just that, becoming a straight A student, always trying to be the one to help others. And it worked. She says she became addicted to the accolades of others, yearning for acceptance and if it didn’t come, she felt she had failed or was somehow not good enough.

As women we all seem to internalize this message, no matter our personal stories, constantly striving for perfection to meet others’ expectations. And somewhere along the way we lose touch with our authentic selves.

For Kamini the wakeup call came when she saw that same behavior manifesting in her children, and soon came to realize an important truth: We are responsible only for our own happiness, that we don’t need to be constantly fixing things for others, but can lead through our own sense of confidence.

Now Kamini is a certified professional coach, the creator of AuthenticMe® and CEO of Live Joy Your Way, helping individuals overcome their fears, unhelpful mindsets and behaviors – including perfectionism.

Today we talk about why perfectionism is simply fear wrapped in a pretty bow, the difference between perfectionism and mastery, and why success comes to those willing to accept themselves as they are and take imperfect action.

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Kamini Wood, and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

Melinda Wittstock:

Kamini, welcome to Wings.

Kamini Wood:

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here with you.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, well, let’s dig right deep into it, perfectionism. So many women suffer from perfectionism, and rather than being an asset, holds a lot of us back. You help a lot of people overcome the perfectionism issue. Let’s get into what causes it. Why do women in particular tend to be perfectionists?

Kamini Wood:

So, through my work and just my own personal experience, what I’ve really learned is a lot of perfectionism, that trait will have its origins from when we were younger. And it comes from not just our family of origin, but societal messages or cultural messages that we receive when we’re younger and we internalize them. And the way we internalize them and make it mean something about us is where that perfectionism stems from. So, for example, I grew up in a predominantly white town, a person of color. And for me, it was all about how do I fit in. And the message I received was, “Well, you needed to be as close to perfect as possible because then you’re not going to make waves.”

So, I took that message, internalized it, and I took that perfectionism personality and I truly just ran with it, and it became such a big part of who I was. But I think all of us have not the same story, but we have that similar element where we’ve experienced something or we received messages along the way, and they became internalized and transformed into this idea that if we’re not perfect, if we don’t get it absolutely right, if we make a mistake, if we fail somehow, maybe we’re not good enough or we’re not worthy or whatever that false belief may be. I truly believe that’s where it comes from.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s interesting, something you said, that the perfectionism was in part around fitting in perfectly.

Kamini Wood:

Yeah. And it’s funny, because I do think that we all have a different element, and that’s why even perfectionism itself has different elements to it. Some of us are very intrinsic in terms of our perfectionism. We hold ourselves to these really high standards. And some of us are externally focused perfectionist, where we hold the people in our lives to really high standards. And then of course, you have those of us who are both.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Well, here’s the thing is if you are demanding perfectionism from yourself, then you’re demanding it of others as well. And this can be a big setback in business, where of course, you want your team doing their very best. You want your team to master things. You want them to really succeed. But if you’re a perfectionist, you run the risk of micromanaging all those people to the point where you don’t have a team anymore.

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely. And you end up shutting them down, because what happens is, is you don’t give them room to grow. And the only way you grow is through experience and trying things, and learning from things that go well, as well as things that don’t go so well. So, if you’re a perfectionist, you’re demanding that perfectionism of your team members, eventually it really puts them in that box and many of them will shut down or just choose to leave.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s really true. So, perfectionism can exhibit in so many different ways, I think with women too, because the way we are wired is to try and do everything to please everybody. And then if you add a layer of perfectionism onto that, so it becomes like, not only do I have to have all the things, but I’ve got to be the best at what I do. And when I go to the gym, I’m not only going to look my best, but I’m going to work harder than anybody else. And then I’m going to do all this stuff, bouncing on high heels. My house is going to look perfect, everything’s going to be right. And it’s impossible. And so, you almost set yourself up for continual disappointment or continual self-recrimination, which makes it even worse. So, it becomes a cycle, doesn’t it?

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely. You set yourself up for that inner critic to just beat you up, until you see you’re just not doing it well, and you failed at this or you failed at that, but the truth is you’re holding yourself to such a ridiculous standard that’s it’s truly not attainable. It’s funny, I was chuckling as you were just talking about the working out at the gym perfectly, because I’ve literally just got off a call with a client and we were just talking about the fact that she was beating herself up, because she wasn’t sweating enough.

Melinda Wittstock:

Our minds make up all these things. So, if we have it in our core and often subconscious belief that we’re not valuable enough, if we don’t believe in own value, then nothing that we can do will ever please ourselves. Is that really the root, really the deep, deep root cause of it?

Kamini Wood:

That’s really at the core. If we cannot get to a place where we recognize that our value comes from our essence and our being and who we are, just because that’s who we are, that’s who we’re showing up as. If we cannot come to that place of deep self-acceptance, what happens is we’re always chasing our value through something external, some accomplishment, some notoriety, something that we’re doing for somebody else, and it’s always external to us. And it’s about coming to this realization that our worth truly, truly, truly is from our mere essence of just the fact that we exist. That already makes us good enough.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that’s a hard one to get to, and because we all have this inner dialogue. I remember when I first became conscious of the inner bully voice, which is what I called it, there’s that constant, it’s like a soundtrack in your own head of all the things you should do better or this or that, or worry, all the things. And how to quiet that down, first of all, and let that stuff go, and be able to move into self-acceptance. Now, it’s really a process. So, when you work with your clients, how do you get them there, because quietening that voice is so hard, and changing the inner dialogue? Because that inner bully, if your best friend talked to you that way, they wouldn’t be your best friend anymore, and yet we accept it from ourselves. It’s really weird actually, when you think about it that way.

Kamini Wood:

It’s funny you say that, because that’s what I actually have to point out to a lot of my clients is, if your best friend talked to you that way, would you still be friends with that person?

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, no.

Kamini Wood:

But it’s true, but we don’t slow down to think about that. We don’t slow down. And so, that’s really where we start with my clients, it’s recognizing, what am I saying to myself and how am I talking to myself? What is that inner critic even saying? Because if we’re not even aware of it, how do we change it? So, awareness is the doorway to change. So, we start at the very beginning, which is, what are you even saying to yourself and where does that belief come from? And so, it’s not that we sit there and psychoanalyze it, but we recognize, wow, that’s the narrative that I’ve had since I was maybe seven or eight, or just the template that I structured all of my choices around. And then we come to this place of, wow, in my adult self, what’s actually true about me and what choices can I make, and what commitments do I want to make to myself? Because the truth is we get to write our own story. And if we’re willing to rewrite that narrative, we can shift.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes, it’s true. And I found there was a really interesting book that I read a while back called The Surrender Experiment. It was Michael Singer and he was talking about this exact phenomenon. And it’s like he set out to figure out how to quiet this constant voice inside his head. He became like a radical meditator. I mean he went really went deep dive, he was meditating for 20 hours a day.

Kamini Wood:

That’s intense.

Melinda Wittstock:

How to shut that voice down, right? It was a real process to get to just having an empty mind, and that was his path to figuring out self-acceptance. But it was a really interesting book. He also wrote The Untethered Soul, because it’s talking about exactly what you’re talking about, how do you reach that point where you’re just enough who you’re being? And you’re coming from a place of doing what you do and what you love to do, just for the joy of doing it.

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

And with the acceptance of that, you’re doing the best you can at all times and that’s okay, that’s enough.

Kamini Wood:

Yes, yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, go ahead.

Kamini Wood:

Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. But there’s one little piece also, it’s realigning with your own core values. What I’ve noticed is, with perfectionism, sometimes we get so caught up in either the inner dialogue or chasing being perfect or getting it right that we start to lose that alignment with our own core values and who we are. So, when we can open up that doorway, so yes, quieting the inner critic and also in conjunction about recognizing, okay, so what actually matters to me, and leaning into those core values. That’s another way that we can come at, how do we start releasing that old story and building a new one?

Melinda Wittstock:

And that goes from trying to be amazing at everything to really being amazing at the things that bring you true joy and happiness, that is your personal mission or why you’re here in an earth suit right now, et cetera. And honestly, from an entrepreneurial context, delegating the rest. I mean, higher your weaknesses, accept them, because not everybody can be good at everything, it doesn’t really make sense. So, doubling down on really your unique strengths, understanding what those are and what brings you happiness is a really big part. And I like the word mastery. Mastering something is different from being a perfectionist. I’d love you to bring that down, really the difference between the two.

Kamini Wood:

That’s an awesome word. And actually, there’s a book titled Mastery and it’s [inaudible 00:10:50].

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, is there really?

Kamini Wood:

Yeah. It’s actually one of my favorite books. It’s an amazing book, it’s a quick read. And there is, there’s such a difference between mastery and perfectionism. Perfectionism is chasing something and trying to “get it right.” Mastery is becoming one with it. I am learning it and I’m assimilating myself to the thing, and I’m coming from a place of choosing. So, it’s choice. It’s leaning into love versus fear. When we’re acting from a perfectionist standpoint, we’re chasing, trying to get to something, we should do it. Whenever somebody uses the word should with me, I always remind them, what are you afraid of? Or I ask the question, well, what are you afraid of, because should really is rooted in fear? I should do this because I’m afraid of something, what is it that I’m afraid of? So, I look at perfectionism the same way, there’s a fear of letting someone down, dropping the ball, whatever that is. Mastery’s all about choice, I am choosing to learn this and become one with it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wow. I love that distinction. It’s very powerful, because really, there are two choices in life, to live from a place of fear or live from a place of love. And when you’re in that fear, I’ve found that you attract more of what you fear perversely into your life.

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

You get what you fear, I mean, this is the awkward thing. And sometimes it takes people a long time to understand that, because they can only really see that when they look back on their life, and see all the ways that you wake up and you’re in your ’40s and ’50s and it’s like, oh, my God, I got exactly what I feared, as opposed to living from that place of just love, gratitude, joy, positivity, whatever kind of word you want to put on it, really attracts more of that, more of the right people, more of the right resources, and money, whatever.

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely. We bring into our lives what it is that we’re focusing on.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes. And then you add another dynamic, because what we’re focused on, is 80% of it is unconscious to us or in our subconscious, you don’t even know.

Kamini Wood:

That’s why awareness is so important, because it’s like, oh, wow, that’s been operating in the background.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So, someone once said to me and it shocked me at the time and it’s just so true, if you want to know what you believe, just look at what you’re experiencing.

Kamini Wood:

That’s very powerful, actually.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s very powerful.

Melinda Wittstock:

The clues are all there. So, what do you have in your life? And okay, so you don’t want it, but somewhere deep in your subconscious, which is not logical, you do. And going back to what you said very at the beginning of the interview about it’s rooted in our childhood, what kind of messages do we take on from what we’re experiencing? And without a frontal lobe yet, we make it about ourselves or some kind of decision we make as a two year old or a five year old. So, basically, your life is being run by a five year old kid.

Kamini Wood:

Yes, that is spot on. And when we say it to people like that, they sometimes are like, oh, that’s not true, but it is. It is. I mean, I see it even with individuals, because I work with all aspects of life, so to speak. This happens in relationships all the time, where it’s like, oh, my gosh, why do I keep repeating the same pattern? I keep finding the same person. And it’s, again, what you just said, it’s because that’s look at what you’re experiencing. If we look at what we’re experiencing, we can learn from it. And it’s like, oh, wow, it’s because I have a certain belief about myself. So, that’s what I’m showing up as in the world and I’m continuing to attract it into my world, in the form of my partner.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, yes. when the lesson is learned, the experience is no longer necessary.

Kamini Wood:

Yes. Yes, I love that. I love that.

Melinda Wittstock:

I mean, this is something that’s so critical to the entrepreneurial journey as I’ve gone on. I’ve been an entrepreneur for some 30 years, five different businesses, not counting all the little side hustles and other little micro businesses and things I did as a teenager, all the things. And I’ve just come to the conclusion that entrepreneurship is in essence spiritual or personal growth journey, because it’s hard. 99% of startups fail within five years, 99%. So, this is not an easy thing. So, the only way you stand at chance is to be constantly curious, constantly learning, constantly growing yourself on that personal level and moving stuff out of your subconscious, clearing stuff, getting rid, all of that. That’s pretty much what it takes to succeed. And as entrepreneurs, we all start from different starting places in terms of what was our childhood like, what were some of those inputs. So, some people have more stuff to heal and recover from than others. We have different starting points there.

Kamini Wood:

Absolutely.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, in the entrepreneurial world, there’s so much advice now and so much cookie cutter, do the funnel like this, or do this, or do that, YouTube, like me, and it doesn’t work that way because we all have different starting points and different things.

Kamini Wood:

Oh, I so agree with you. I so agree with you. And you know what’s interesting about that, too? There are so many cookie cutter, I’m using air quotes here, ways to run our business and the people try to use it and it doesn’t work, they can get so frustrated and think there’s something wrong with them. And what you just said is so, so important, we’re all coming from different starting points. We’re all at a different chapter in our story, so how can the same cookie cutter solution work for each one of us?

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, God, yeah, so true. And this is so profound. And then that just then, if you’re in that, if you’re stuck there, for anybody listening, in that exact mode, like, oh, my God, I’ve tried this and I’ve tried that and nothing’s working, oh, my God, and then it kick starts the fear thing, and then the perfectionist thing. So, it’s a human condition. I laugh, because inherently, I think humans are pretty funny.

Kamini Wood:

We are, we are.

Melinda Wittstock:

They’re getting trapped in these things and they’re so on one level, so obvious, but not when you’re in it.

Kamini Wood:

Yeah. When you’re in it, it’s like the analogy or the metaphor I use is when you’re in it, you’re on ground level. You’re seeing just what’s in front of you. And really what we have to do, especially as entrepreneurs, is we have to give ourselves permission to go up to that sky level view, where we’re now looking out across all of it. Because again, that’s how we can see and we become aware of all the things, rather than just this little thing right in front of us that we over focus on and we somehow make mean that we’re failing.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, the impacts of perfectionism in the context of a business can manifest in a whole bunch of ways that I’ve found. Either it’s like you go into permanent planning, where you’re planning for the sale, say, or you’re planning, planning, planning, and this is going to be the perfect plan before you start doing it, that holds up businesses, and holds up growth, and holds up everything. Because the longer you plan, the further it is from the revenue say that you want, or the traction in your business, or customers being happy or whatever it is. And entrepreneurs can go out and create these “perfect products” say without any real insight from their customers, because they’re afraid deep down of what their customers, will they like it or not. So, I’m going to keep toiling until it’s perfect. So, I don’t want to show it to the world yet until it’s perfect. It’s like what my mom used to do is clean up the house before the housekeeper came.

Kamini Wood:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, we end up with these perfect products that aren’t market tested or a perfect sales plan without a sale.

Kamini Wood:

Yes. Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

How do you get people out of that into the idea of taking imperfect action?

Kamini Wood:

So, funny, my mom did the same thing. We always had a clean house before the housekeeper came. In terms of taking that imperfect action, a couple things. One is that I just wanted to touch on is you’re absolutely right, if we continue to sit in that space of, I’m going to plan and I’m going to make this whole thing so perfect that I’m going to get the perfect sale, and I’m just going to keep at it until it feels absolutely perfect, we never actually get it out there for the world to see. So, the very first thing is, what’s your purpose in the product in the first place? Are you trying to serve somebody? Are you trying to help them? What’s your why, because your why is to get something out there? So, if we dive into that why, we recognize that the longer I hold onto it and I’m waiting for it to be perfect, I’m not serving the people that I’m trying to serve.

So, it’s really putting forth the way that we get unstuck from that paralysis it’s, what’s more important to me, is it to be perfect or to actually serve the people that I’m trying to serve? And that’s usually enough for people to say, well, at the end of the day, my bigger priority is to serve the people, so let me at least get them something and see if it is giving them what they need. And then the best part is I can learn from that and I can keep continuing to make my product better and better. It’s recognizing that we’re also not perfect beings. So, if we recognize that we’re just in this process of self-growth and evolution, and we give ourselves permission to continue to do that, and recognize that if we ever get to the end point, we’re done and there’s nothing left to experience. It’s the same thing with our products, we allow them to grow and evolve too.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, so true. So, Kamini, how did you become a coach with all this wisdom? Tell me about what was the aha moment and where you were when you decided, okay, I am going to go and serve people, which you do.

Kamini Wood:

Well, I took the traditional route. I was in the business world as part of the dot-com industry. I was a project manager. And truthfully, because I was part of the dot-com industry, I was already in the entrepreneurial field. It was all about growth and evolution and building something from nothing. Then I took that and I ended up building my husband’s law practice with him and really dove into the human resources aspect of it, which entailed helping other attorneys, paralegals, assistance, hone in on what truly brought them joy and fulfillment and where they wanted to go in their careers. Now, that was the professional side. This also worked in tandem with my own personal journey. I’ve already said, I’m a perfectionist. I still own it, it’s part of who I am, it’s part of my personality trait. I’ve just learned how to recognize when I’m leaning too far into it and it’s becoming a weakness rather than a strength.

But in context of my personal world, I was at that point in time, very highly into my people pleasing and my perfectionism, and being a mom helped me see that, because I started seeing my children mirror that. And I recognized I needed to do some self work to figure out what was holding me back, for instance, as well as how was I holding my children back because they were just emulating my behaviors. So, how could that possibly affect them? So, you take that personal journey, you take the professional journey, and I realized, wow, this is what I really want to do. I want to take my personal experience and I want to take my business knowhow, and I want to take that and pay it forward with all these other individuals who might be experiencing something similar and just need that person who can hold that space to believe in them long enough for them to believe in themselves.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes. Oh, that’s amazing. So, how long have you been doing it and who are your ideal clients? Who do you help? And beyond perfectionism, what are the different things that you’re really helping them overcome?

Kamini Wood:

So, I’ve been really running just strictly my coaching practice for the last six years. Prior to that, like I said, I was in the business world for over 20. But my clients that I really enjoy working with are my high performing, high achieving individuals, so a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of women who are trying to really find their space in the world and really put the stake in the ground and shine their own light, because they’ve spent so many years dimming it. So, really, what we’re talking about is yes, perfectionism, but it’s also about codependency, over functioning, not really leaning into who you truly are. So, it’s really being held back by those limiting beliefs of either not being good enough or having imposter syndrome, maybe not being in the healthiest of relationships because of those things. So, I work with individuals on all of that in order to help them move from that stuck stagnant place into what they truly want for themselves, both professionally and personally.

Melinda Wittstock:

I really love that, Kamini, because the entrepreneurial woman, you mentioned something about years spent dimming the light. And this is something very interesting for female entrepreneurs, because as long as women have been in scarcity and competing with each other, and also deep down, not valuing themselves, there’s the tall poppy syndrome it’s referred to, where there’s a lot of fear associated with playing a big game, just deciding as a female that you’re just going to go out and build a billion dollar business. Women have other women around them that are like, what makes you think you can do that, or even well-meaning relatives that like, are you sure, all that kind of stuff. There’s all kinds of pressures that stop us from really shining our light, because I think we fear, well, this is my theory anyway, we fear that we’ll be cast out of the tribe if we dare to show our ambition or just go big, try something really game change, whatever, right?

Kamini Wood:

Totally. It’s the fear of, if I shine too bright, who am I going to potentially push away?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. And it’s other women and it’s sometimes men. I remember growing up and my mom telling me, oh, yeah, men don’t like strong women, but I am a strong… At one point in my life, I remember my ’20s or ’30’s thinking, oh, okay, well maybe I’ll just never get married, because this is who I am, and I had acceptance of it. And then the minute I accepted it, of course, there was a guy.

Kamini Wood:

Isn’t that a great example of really having it mirrored back to you, I’ve accepted it and now there’s a guy who can actually accept it too.

Melinda Wittstock:

And that’s the thing, everything starts from within us. Oh, my goodness, I could talk to you forever. I want to make sure, with podcasts and whatnot, I’m always concerned about people’s attention span, we never usually run this much longer than half an hour, but I seriously could talk to you for a lot longer. I want to make sure, Kamini, that people know how to find you and work with you.

Kamini Wood:

They can find me on the web at kaminiwood.com or I’m on Facebook and Instagram, as well as Pinterest at the handle, Its Authentic Me.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Kamini Wood:

Thank you for having me.