925 Melissa Darnay: Escape to Panama

Wings of Inspired Business Podcast EP 925 Transcript – Host Melinda Wittstock interviews Melissa Darnay

Melinda Wittstock:

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business:

Melissa Darnay:

Then once you get here and you’re on vacation and you’re like, oh, I really, I really think I like it. I think I want to invest in something. Then we’ll talk about, you know, what are you looking for? Are you wanting a vacation home? Do you want to move here permanently? Do you want something for investment to diversify your money? And you just want the highest ROI possible? And the most important question I ask people is what’s your exit strategy? And if you don’t have one, I’m going to help you put one together because that’s going to be part of the purchase process as well. You know, do you want to buy a vacation property and then die with it and leave it to your heirs, or do you want an investment property that you can be in and out in a couple of years?

Melinda Wittstock:

A lot of Americans are moving abroad, taking advantage better lifestyles at a lower cost of living, as well as investment opportunities as many look to escape the turmoil and uncertainty here at home. Every day my social feeds are full of entrepreneurs and digital nomads enjoying life in Portugal, Spain, Italy and further afield. Luxury real estate specialist Melissa Darnay says her phone is ringing off the hook with Americans planning to move to Panama. Today we look at what makes Panama attractive, and if you’re looking for a change, how to go about it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward as a five-time serial entrepreneur, so I started this podcast to catalyze an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other. Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together and lift as we climb.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who transformed personal tragedy into an adventurous career change from selling wine in Texas to leading a successful luxury real estate and rental agency in Panama. Melissa Darnay is the CEO of Choose Panama, a luxury real estate and rental agency based in Panama City. Melissa specializes in helping clients find the perfect investment properties that align with their personal dreams and financial goals. Her unique approach sets her apart from other real estate professionals—she guides clients from their first inquiry through every stage of settling into Panama, offering support long after the transaction is complete. Today she opens up about the challenges and exhilarations of embracing entrepreneurship in an unknown land, learning the ropes of a new culture, and navigating the burgeoning Panama real estate market.

Melinda Wittstock:

Melissa will be here in a moment, and first:

[PROMO CREDIT]

Helping women build wealth and make their purpose driven impact on the world through entrepreneurship has always been a mission close to my heart. That’s why eight years ago, I started this podcast to help women succeed as entrepreneurs. Over the years, I’ve driven more than $10 million in sales to the women I’ve featured on this show, and this year I’m taking my investment in female founders to a whole new level as a venture partner of the new firm Zero Limits Capital, where we’re dedicated to investing in highly scalable seed stage startups founded by women and diverse teams – a mission more important than ever as the Trump administration cracks down on anything and everything DEI. We’re looking for innovators with exciting new applications of AI, Blockchain and other emerging technologies that make a social and sustainable impact to change the world. Is this you? If it is, take a moment and tell us about your opportunity at bit.ly/ZLCintake – that’s bit.dot.ly/ZLCintake – capital ZLC lowercase intake. And because I know from 20-plus years of experience raising venture capital, I’m opening up my schedule to help female founders nail their investment strategies and pitch decks at the earliest stages of their companies. Email me at melinda@wingspodcast.com if you’re interested in a consult. That’s melinda@wingspodcast.com.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s face it. A lot of people in the United States, from immigrants with permanent residency to citizens, are starting to formulate their Plan B escape routes abroad sparked by rising costs and the uncertainty of the tariffs, the threat of recession, not to mention forced disappearances of immigrants here legally. Yesterday, President Donald Trump went so far as to threaten to start deporting American citizens.

Melinda Wittstock:

There is a lot of fear and uncertainty, and along with the money flows out of the bond and stock markets to other countries, there is a growing brain drain from the U.S. So, if you’re one of a fast-growing group looking for life in sunnier climes, Melissa Darnay takes you on a tour of Panama. The luxury real estate entrepreneur takes us through how Panama’s tax advantages and business-friendly environment make it an attractive option for entrepreneurs and those seeking a vibrant lifestyle abroad. Whether you’re considering a new investment, a change of scenery, or simply intrigued by the possibility of a fresh start, this episode is filled with valuable insights and practical advice for taking the leap into the unknown.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Melissa Darnay and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Melissa, welcome to Wings.

Melissa Darnay:

Thanks for having me. So much fun to be here today.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, you upended your whole life, moved from Texas to Panama, where you have a luxury real estate and rental agency. First of all, before we get into the details of your business and what you’re doing in Panama and real estate and all those good things, what was the impetus that had you make such a dramatic change in your life?

Melissa Darnay:

You know, I went through something really hard, and, you know, in life, so many of us go through something hard. My husband was going to the grocery store one day to pick up some milk and was killed in a car accident. And I just couldn’t pick up the pieces to my life, and I was trying to figure out how. So, I started selling wine because that was one of my dreams. I had wanted to be in the wine industry and did that for four years, and it was so much fun, but there really wasn’t the money in it that I needed to live. I started looking for my next adventure, and about that time had gone to Panama for the first time on vacation. And a lot of times when you go on vacation, you think, could I live there? Could I get a vacation home there? I think most people do that. I got back from Panama, and I just thought about it for a while and thought, you know, I’ve got nothing left.

Melissa Darnay:

I’ve got nothing to lose. I can go there, and if I hate it, I can come back. But now’s the time. I was in my 30s, so I moved. I packed up my house, sold my house, packed up a few suitcases, brought my two dogs, and moved to Panama. And I came here specifically, not only to live on the ocean and have an adventure, but I came here specifically to start a business, to make money in real estate. So that was part of my plan all along. Panama’s very business friendly, which is one of the boxes that got checked off my list when I was thinking if I could move.

Melissa Darnay:

And so, I landed in 2012 in Panama, single, just starting a new country. I spoke five words of Spanish and knew virtually nobody. So, it was quite the adventure. Also, technology was not then what it is now. So, navigating my way wasn’t as easy because Waze didn’t exist, Uber didn’t exist. I did have some challenges. Things that people find easier now. But over the course of a couple years, I was really able to become entrenched in the Panama culture and start a business and make friends.

Melissa Darnay:

I mean, you make friends here so quickly. My rule of thumb is you can make more friends in one month than you could make in five years back home.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wow, that’s really interesting, huh?

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, I think it’s also admirable about what you did. You know, in. In the midst of tragedy is just sort of jumping into the unknown. I mean, that’s a very entrepreneurial thing to do. Some people are just really good at doing that. I think most people are not good at doing that, right? And just saying, well, why not? You know?

Melissa Darnay:

And I think so many people have said that to me, so I’m glad you brought that up, because it’s like, okay, when you’re stuck. And again, most of us have gone through something hard or most of us have. Have hit a brick wall when we’re doing something entrepreneurial. But if you just jump in with both feet. One of the big sayings that’s becoming more popular now is if you do something fast, you can fail three times and figure it out before everyone else around you has even tried it. And I love that saying, because it’s better to get in, do it wrong 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 times so that you’re ahead of the curve for finally doing it right when that comes around.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh, exactly. I mean, entrepreneurship is, nothing if not just continual iteration.

Melissa Darnay:

Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right.

Melissa Darnay:

Constantly pivoting.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. And I mean, the other metaphor that we use all the time here is, you know, you’re basically building the plane as you’re flying it.

Melissa Darnay:

That’s right.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, it requires that you get very comfortable outside your comfort zone, comfortable with uncertainty, you know, all these sorts of. All these sorts of things. And so, what was it about the Panama real estate market that you thought, okay, this is the right place to do this? I mean, you obviously fell in love with the place, but, like, what was it about the real estate market there that. That made it, you know, a good bet?

Melissa Darnay:

There were so many things. First of all, it’s such an easy flight from the US that was really important to me. I knew that I wasn’t going to be selling to the Panama market. I didn’t speak Spanish. So, my goal coming here was to introduce basically vacation homes and second homes and investment properties to the North American market. So, it’s an easy flight. It’s easy to get here. Panama uses the US Dollar, so it’s very easy specifically for Americans to invest or to come and spend time here.

Melissa Darnay:

There are virtually no natural disasters. Panama has never had a hurricane on record. No tornadoes, no earthquakes, no volcanoes. So, you know, Having lived in Dallas, where there were a lot of tornadoes, and having grown up in California, where there were a lot of earthquakes, you know, that was something that was important to me because not only for your safety and your peace of mind, but things like insurance are so much cheaper in Panama. If you look at the carrying costs of a property that’s similar, for example, in Panama and in Florida and in California, it’s, like, ridiculous. It’s about 112 of the carrying cost as those other places.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wow. That makes it very attractive. And how is it in terms of, like, is it super. I’ve never been there. Is it super-hot all the time or not so much?

Melissa Darnay:

No, the weather’s great. Most days are in the. It’s in the 80s with a nice breeze. So, the hottest I’ve ever seen it here is 93. I’ve never seen it get to 94. Living in Dallas, you know, 93 was a, you know, a cool day, so that was important to me. I don’t like the extreme heat that Dallas had.

Melissa Darnay:

There’s different microclimates within Panama. So, if you like it a little cooler, there are mountain regions that. That are friendly toward expats, a couple that are what we call expat centric, that have weather from the high 60s to the low 80s, and then Panama City in the beaches area tend to run pretty much 80s, you know, high 70s to low 90s. It’s a very comfortable weather. You have two seasons of the year that the temperature is pretty much the same all year long, but you have two different times of year. You have dry season, which we’re in now. So dry season is from, you know, the beginning of January till about May.

Melissa Darnay:

And then you have rainy season, which really doesn’t start till about September, and it goes through November, but you have this sort of pre rainy season that’s maybe June and July and August. You have these, you know, it’s either rainy here or it’s dry, but the temperature is the same.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. You know, I imagine there must have just been a lot of things that have happened. I mean, everything from COVID where a lot of Americans looked for other places to go, and then now with all the kind of uncertainty, there’s so many Americans and entrepreneurs in particular that are looking for other places to just live or do business.

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah, I think. I think a lot of people right now are looking for a plan B, and that plan B could be, you know, diversifying assets it could be diversifying business strategy. It could be, you know, diversifying for some fun, whatever that Plan B is. I would say the majority of our clients right now are what we’ll call Plan B clients. They don’t want to give up what they’re doing, where they’re living, what their work is, but they just want to expand it and like I said, diversify.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, say if you’re a business owner right in the US and you think, oh well, you know what if I buy a house in Panama, that’ll be cheaper, the insurance will be better, it’s a nice climate, can I just run my business from there instead? Is there any kind of issue around that? I know there was a big debate of a lot of people move to Puerto Rico to take advantage of tax, all that stuff. That was a big trend for a while. What’s the situation for business owners in Panama?

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah, the same thing is true here. For someone who’s a true small business entrepreneur, Panama is so incredibly business friendly. The tax rate on a Corporation is 25% but there are a lot of write offs. So, if you wanted to end up net zero, it wouldn’t be too hard to do that. For mid-size or larger companies. There are tax free zones that allow you to get tax free in and out. These special zones in Panama have made it so that companies can literally run their Latin America divisions by saving so much money on the tax free in and out. So, depending upon the size and type of your business, well, you know, whether it’s a one or two- or three-person business, you know, 100 person business or a multinational, there’s definitely a lot of tax advantages to, to having the business be based in Panama.

Melinda Wittstock:

Interesting. And then I think even from a bank, I mean there’s so much kind of instability and uncertainty at the moment where, you know, with all this talk about oh, you know, maybe Trump’s going to get rid of the FDIC and you think, huh, that’s scary. Where’s the best place you have money? Where’s the best place to have your money? So, like, what’s the banking situation in Panama?

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah, banking is one of the biggest industries in Panama. We’re the in the top three around the world banking countries, so Switzerland, the Caymans and Panama. So, there’s over a hundred banks. In fact, there’s this area of downtown Panama City called, you know, basically it’s in Spanish, it’s El Bunkaria. So, you know, the banking area and there’s, you know, basically over a hundred banks in just a few blocks. And so, banks from all over the world, you know, be it Ecuador, China, you know, Brazil, everything right there. It’s easy to find a bank to do business with. And typically, people will come down here and open, you know, multiple different bank accounts for different reasons.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, Panama’s obviously been in the news because of Donald Trump saying, okay, we’re going to take Greenland, Canada, Panama. You’re what? So, what’s the situation? What’s the current situation in Panama now with respect to that?

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah, so there was a deal signed. You know, I don’t think it got that much press in the U.S. surprisingly, because no one I’ve talked to has heard of it, but it did get a lot of press here. So, the, the big issue was that on the Panama Canal, which is a waterway, you know, that cuts across the entire country, that the skinny part of the country from the Pacific to the Atlantic Ocean. So, on one side of the canal were Panama based companies that own the cranes that took the containers off of the ships. And on the other side of the canal there were companies from a Hong Kong based company. So, the challenge was, you know, it’s a Hong Kong based company, which is China, which, you know, have to do what the Chinese government tells them to do. That was the argument.

Melissa Darnay:

What they’ve done is they’ve sold this whole port portion of the company, this Hong Kong Company, to BlackRock. Now BlackRock is a US company and BlackRock will be in charge of the other side of the canal.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, this is a big geopolitical thing, right?

Melissa Darnay:

It is.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. And like it’s all the supply chains, all the shipping routes. I mean, it’s pretty vital, like if that ever closed down. Goodness me.

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah. And I did hear that, like, it’s over 70%, almost 80% of the containers or the ships either are going to the U.S. or are leaving the U.S. so it is super important for the U.S. and, and Panama knows it’s obviously the number one industry in Panama. So, Panama wants to do everything they can to keep that part of the GDP, you know, vital and, and bringing in money.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, what does this all meant for real estate? Is, is the market pretty hot there or, or are there deals? Where does it sort of stand right now? If you were starting to think about something like this, just up and moving there.

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah. So, I gotta tell you, now’s the time. Here’s the reason why. If you look at any market around the world, if the Market’s going to go up or down. There has to be some sort of catalyst. So, the catalyst might be that like for example, when I, after I left Dallas there were a lot of multi corporate headquarters that moved to Dallas, I mean dozens of them. And that brought in so many more employees which brought any more people who needed housing. So, after I left Dallas, the housing market doubled.

Melissa Darnay:

Something similar happened in Northern California with a dot com boom in the late 90s. Panama since I’ve been here has been pretty flat. It has not gone up; it has not gone down very much. It’s been flat. But now there’s several things happening that we think are the catalyst that’s really going to launch Panama into the next level, so to speak. One, the airport, the main airport, Takuman International, just expanded and this doubled the number of terminals. It tripled the capacity to process people, and it allowed more direct flights to more cities around the world. There’s an, the second thing is that Panama just finished a cruise ship terminal that’s really, if you could see me, it’s right behind me.

Melissa Darnay:

So, it’s, you know, 10, 15 minutes from where I am across the water. And this cruise ship terminal can process two mega ships and 10,000 people a day. Between those two initiatives alone, there are other infrastructure projects of course going on right now that are big, but between these, because these are the ones that are bringing foreigners and introducing them to Panama. So, between these two initiatives alone, the Panama Tourism Authority is expecting tourism to triple year over year by the end of the year. So, from last year when these two projects were finished till the end of this year. So that’s a big increase in tourism as more and more people find out that Panama is really a special country. I mean Panama City is a young Miami. It’s full of skyscrapers and it’s bordered on the ocean.

Melissa Darnay:

There are first class restaurants, there are, you know, the opera. It’s an amazing city that’s full of culture and full of things that people want. Because of that, I think there’s a lot of people who will experience Panama for the first time who thought of it really just as a third world country, you know, one and done. But when you come here it is so exciting and so shocking and so awe inspiring. A lot of people think it’s worth a second look.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s so interesting. You see how the people say, you know, in, in Miami or in, in, in, you know, it has this, you know, great culture. You, you know, like that all of the things. But then just all the hurricanes, all the…

Melissa Darnay:

And the cost.

Melinda Wittstock:

And the cost and the insurance and the fact that it’s getting really difficult to get insurance. California, same thing, Southern California. It’s like, you know, with the fires, all that stuff, it’s like, huh, can you even buy a property here if you need a mortgage? Because it’s, you can’t get, increasingly can’t get insurance.

Melissa Darnay:

Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

And so, if you want nice sunny weather and all this sort of stuff, like you, you can see the attraction of that. And then also the, just the fact that geopolitically, I think there’s a lot of people. Yeah. Like as you say, with their plan B. So, say if you decided you were going to take a look at this, talk to me about your business and what the steps are and how you take people through this process.

Melissa Darnay:

Basically, we’re a one stop shop. For someone who wants to come to Panama on vacation, which is where most people start, we have amazing vacation rentals right on the water near Panama City. Close to everything they’re priced, you know, the prices are better than hotels for more space and a more luxurious experience. Most people say it’s one of the best vacations they’ve ever had and are so shocked by it. So, if you wanted to start with vacation, you know, that’s a good place to start. We have a website called Choose Panama Rentals and you can just go on there, you know, book something. You can also go to Airbnb, but it’s going to be more expensive because of the Airbnb and VRBO, you know, fees. So, our website is typically the cheapest way to go.

[PROMO CREDIT]

What if you had an app that magically surfaced your ideal podcast listens around what interests and inspires you – without having to lift a finger?  Podopolo is your perfect podcast matchmaker – AI powered recommendations and clip sharing make Podopolo different from all the other podcast apps out there. Podopolo is free in both app stores – and if you have a podcast, take advantage of time-saving ways to easily find new listeners and grow revenue. That’s Podopolo.

Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Melissa Darnay, CEO of Choose Panama, a luxury real estate and rental agency based in Panama City.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Melissa Darnay:

Then once you get here and you’re on vacation and you’re like, oh, I really, I really think I like it. I think I want to invest in something. Then we’ll talk about, you know, what are you looking for? Are you wanting a vacation home? Do you want to move here permanently? Do you want something for investment to diversify your money? And you just want the highest ROI possible? And the most important question I ask people is what’s your exit strategy? And if you don’t have one, I’m going to help you put one together because that’s going to be part of the purchase process as well. You know, do you want to buy a vacation property and then die with it and leave it to your heirs, or do you want an investment property that you can be in and out in a couple of years? So that’s all part of the conversation. Then this third step, after we help you purchase the property, then you want Property management. So, then we can do that for you as well.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So really, strategy, the exit strategy is really important. I mean, you know, we talk about that a lot on this podcast in the context of people’s businesses, because a lot of people start businesses with no exit strategy in mind. Like, which, which is not the most prudent. Like, are you building something that you want to sell in, you know, and have a big exit and that’s your nest egg, that’s your wealth, you know, you’re creating your startup, you’re creating your wealth. Or is it some sort of lifestyle business that you’re going to be happy to run, you know, you know, forever? Or, like, who’s your successor? Like, all these sorts of things. It’s, it’s surprising to me how few founders really think about that. So, in, in real estate, yeah, obviously it’s, it’s got to be the same thing.

Melinda Wittstock:

Do, do a lot of your clients sort of not know and, and need that kind of clarification from you in terms of, like, walking them through the process and what the pros and cons are of different approaches?

Melissa Darnay:

Yes. And, you know, investors typically know they know what they want. They know, you know, because they’re professional investors, and we do have a lot of those clients. But the people who’ve just fallen in love with Panama who decide that they want a vacation home, they want to come here sometimes, but when they’re not here, they want to rent it out so that the property is cash flow positive. They haven’t really thought about how long they’re going to hold it, you know, and that’s fair that you don’t have to know the exact answer, but just to, to know, to be thinking about it as you purchase it. I had one client come down years ago and they basically said, we want this property. And I was like, look, this property, you’re going to love it, but it’s going to be super hard to sell because of the, of the area. So, you have to be sure that this is what you want because you may end up dying with it.

Melissa Darnay:

And so, we sort of, you know, had a few tense conversations about that. And finally, they did, trust me, because if they had bought that property, you know, it would have taken a long time to sell. So that is something important too, in an area, you know, when you’re, when you’re buying outside of where you’re from, you know, listen to the experts, because we know the areas that are going to be, you know, best for what you want. So that’s why this conversation is so important. Typically, when someone contacts us from the US the first thing we do is we set them up with a 30-minute phone call. And that’s what we talk about. You know, let’s not talk about property yet. Let’s talk about what you want, you know, and then this is where their dreams and desires come in, or their money talk.

Melissa Darnay:

And then that, that, then, then that gives us the chance to, you know, present them with the best options.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. What are the rules around and laws and such around? So, say you buy a property that you want to live in part of the year, but not the whole, maybe the rest of the year, you want to rent it out. Is that something that you handle as well?

Melissa Darnay:

Absolutely, absolutely. And Panama City, back in the mid, we’ll call it mid 2000s, they were trying to attract more hotels because Panama really is a very young country. So, in 2012, the same year I got here, they enacted a law. So, there were no rentals under 45 days. And they did that to protect the hotels. And this was really pre-Airbnb. That law is on the books. Now.

Melissa Darnay:

In order to be able to rent short term in the city, you have to be in a special licensed project, and there’s only a couple in the city, or you have to be just outside the city. So that’s one of the areas where we specialize in, is the area just outside the city. Well, it’s only about 15 minutes into the city on a private beach, you know, looking out over the ocean, but yet not encumbered by the, the short-term rental laws.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. I just imagine there’s so many things, such a steep learning curve. Yes, you’re really providing that service along with the actual, you know, you know, negotiation of the purchase and, you know, all those sorts of things.

Melissa Darnay:

Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s one of the differences is people, you know, if you’re looking to buy something in your hometown, you really only need somebody to help negotiate the purchase. Here, when you get someone, you need someone to navigate you through a lot of things that could go wrong. And literally, after, you know, 12 and a half years, I’ve seen everything. But then you also, once you own the property, you need somebody to help you turn on the electricity, get cable and Internet. You know, all those things that you don’t think about that might be challenging for you if you don’t speak Spanish. That for us, we have a team of people that can help do that for you.

Melinda Wittstock:

So you’re American citizen or maybe like me or a Canadian citizen with a U.S. green card or whatever, or you’re wherever.

Melissa Darnay:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

Like what, what are sort of the, the rules around the immigration piece, both on the US Side and for residency and all these sorts of things. Are there any rules around how long you have to be in Panama?

Melissa Darnay:

Sure, sure, sure, sure. So, I’m going to break it down a little bit. In order to buy a property, you do not have to be a resident. So, you can just buy property, you know, no matter where you’re from, it doesn’t matter. The if you want to come here as a visitor, you can come here for six months at a time without having residency. If you want to get residency and you’re from either the US Or Canada, there’s something called the friendly nations visa, which is what I have, that allows you to live, work, you know, kind of do everything that a Panamanian would do, except for a few things like I can’t vote in their elections, I can’t own property within 10km of an international border, and I can’t be a doctor or a lawyer. Other than that, I have most of the same abilities that a normal Panamanian would. If you want to come and just retire and not work here, there’s also another visa called the pensionado visa, the retirees visa, and this one comes with a lot of perks.

Melissa Darnay:

So not only can you live here, and you don’t have to be here more than two weeks every other year, so they’re not counting the days you’re here, but then once you’re here, you get discounts on literally everything. If you go to the doctor, there’s like, I think it’s like a 20% discount. Restaurants are 25% discount. Airline tickets that start and end in Panama are 20%. Movie tickets are 50%. So just living your normal life, you’re going to even save more money by having a pensionada visa and living in Panama.

Melinda Wittstock:

And what about operating a business there? Let’s say you’re a US LLC or a C Corp or something like that. I mean, is there any special kind of permitting that you have to get to be able to operate your business from there?

Melissa Darnay:

No, it depends on what the business is. Typically, most people want to do kind of just flip flop that. So even if you have a US corporation, most people will come to Panama and open a corporation here. And then, you know, because the, the corporation of course is not a US citizen, the corporation is a Panamanian citizen. So, there’s a lot of ways where you can diversify the business itself and the money by having, you know, the money come from the. The Panama entity.

Melinda Wittstock:

It sounds really actually kind of enticing for anybody listening to this that are looking for their plan B. I think there are a lot of Americans in that boat, like, right now, you know.

Melissa Darnay:

And people who own businesses and feel like they’re paying too much tax in businesses. They’re, you know, you’re the exact person who may want to investigate Panama as a place for your business, you know, even if you don’t live here full time.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, that’s very, very interesting. Oh, my goodness. And so, what was it like for you setting this up? I mean, you know, we were talking. We started the podcast talking about, you know, leaping into the unknown and whatnot. What have been some of the challenges along your journey in terms of setting up this business?

Melissa Darnay:

My challenges were that I did not have a roadmap. I didn’t have a me taking me by the hand and telling me what to do next. So, there was a lot of floundering. And I think that’s one of the reasons that for our business, we really do hold people’s hands. We call it white glove service because we don’t want other people to have the same challenges we’ve had.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, so you went through it so other people don’t have to.

Melissa Darnay:

Exactly. Sometimes I feel like I’ve made every mistake in the book. I did a lot of things right, but I did do a lot of things wrong.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Yeah. Well, that’s always, always the way, you know, the way you learn. So how many clients at any given time, how many clients are you working with?

Melissa Darnay:

Oh, gosh, quite a few. We have 40 rental apartments that we manage. So, we’re constantly dealing with people who are, you know, coming down to check Panama out. Some people will come for a few days, some people will come for a year. So that’s one segment of clientele. Then we have our real estate clients who are, you know, coming to look typically this time of year. Like, I have not had a Sunday off since before Christmas, which means I haven’t had a day off since before Christmas.

Melissa Darnay:

This time of year, is very, very busy with just constant, you know, people are here, snowbirds are here. When it’s cold in North America, we’re very, very busy. And people, you know, who’ve gotten away from the snow and fall in love with this climate are very curious about, you know, what’s out there, what, what they can see, what they can, you know, what the options are. So, we do. And I would say that for a lot of people, you know, that there is that natural progression of first is vacation, and then there might be a second trip where it’s more exploratory, and then comes the investment. Although some people who are coming for either business purposes or investment purposes, you know, they. They compress that and they might do that all-in-one trip.

Melinda Wittstock:

Very, very interesting. So, what’s the best way for somebody who is thinking about this? Because I can imagine your business is going to boom this year.

Melissa Darnay:

Yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

Are you like, you know, what’s your capacity like?

Melinda Wittstock:

Are you able to kind of scale your business to deal with that kind of extra demand relatively easily, or what’s your plan for if you suddenly had huge amounts of demand?

Melissa Darnay:

Yes, we. We actually have been scaling up in the past year, anticipating what’s been going to happen. We knew that the election, one way or another in the US Was going to drive people down here. We have done a lot of things to scale, so we feel like we’re ready for it.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s really, really exciting. Well, what’s the best way to find you and work with you? I know you have a podcast and everything too, Melissa, is that right, about your podcast?

Melissa Darnay:

Yes. So, I have a podcast called the Panama Podcast, and we do talk about some real estate on there, but really we’re talking a lot about lifestyle, because my feeling was that was the white space in the market, because no one was talking about what lifestyle in Panama was like for expats, you know, people who are from the US or from Canada. What is it like to live in Panama? So that is really what the focus of the podcast is about. We’ll talk to you about what it’s like to go to the grocery store, what it’s like to go to the hospital, how to get medical care, how to make friends, all of the soft things. But super important, if you’re thinking about investing in another country, that is on YouTube. The channel is Oozepanama, and it’s called the Panama Podcast. I also offer a free eBook called Panama Uncorked. Everything you need to know to visit, live and invest in Panama.

Melissa Darnay:

So this is available on my website@choosepanama.com. just go there, download it. It will appear instantly in your inbox.

Melinda Wittstock:

Amazing. I’ll make sure I have all of that in the show notes. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today. Melissa.

Melissa Darnay:

Thank you so much, Melinda, for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Melissa Darnay is the CEO of Choose Panama, a luxury real estate and rental agency based in Panama City.

Melinda Wittstock:

Don’t forget to create and share your favorite moments of this or any other episode with Podopolo’s viral episode clip feature, and join us in the episode comments section so we can all take the conversation further with your questions and comments.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s it for today’s episode. Head on over to WingsPodcast.com – and subscribe to the show. When you subscribe, you’ll instantly get my special gift, the WINGS Success Formula. Women … Innovating … Networking … Growing …Scaling … IS the WINGS of Inspired Business Formula …for daily success in your business and life. Miss a Wings episode? We’ve got hundreds in the vault, all with actionable advice and epiphanies. Check them out at MelindaWittstock.com or wingspodcast.com. You can also catch me on LinkedIn or Instagram @MelindaAnneWittstock. We also love it when you share your feedback with a 5-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify or wherever else you listen, including Podopolo where you can interact with me and share your favorite clips.