901 Molly McGrath:

Molly McGrath:

It comes down to vulnerability. Throw out those interview questions that you download from the Internet and walk someone through your day, walk them through from a second that your eyes open and you’re navigating, you know, small children or school age children or whatever it might be, and then what it takes for you to get your first appointment, first meeting, whatever it be, and then be quiet and still and silent let them show you the math on how they’ve done this before. One of my favorite ads I ever wrote for myself when I was first hiring, I was looking for a project manager.

Molly McGrath:

The ad was, I’m a single mom raising two children. And I’m running a business that’s on ready to skyrocket. But I need somebody that come in. I have no process, no systems. I’m working 12 hours. Are you the right person for this job? I had to literally shut that ad off in less than 90 minutes because I had 48 people apply saying, I love working for female entrepreneurs like you in this exact position.

Melinda Wittstock:

Recruiting is never easy. I have yet to meet an entrepreneur that hasn’t had a hard time finding the right talent at the right time to grow their business, and everyone has a horror story about making an expensive mistake with a bad hire. Molly McGrath is the CEO and Founder of recruiting consultancy Hiring & Empowering Solutions, and today she shares her meticulous recruitment strategies, from allowing yourself to be transparent and vulnerable to setting salary expectations right at the beginning so avoid misalignment. Plus, how to use your intuition, ask insightful interview questions, and create compelling job ads.

Melinda Wittstock:

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m all about paying it forward a five-time serial entrepreneur, so this podcast is all about catalyzing an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from, and invest in each other …Because together we’re stronger, and we all soar higher when we fly together.

Melinda Wittstock:

Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who is on a mission to help entrepreneurs and business owners get much better at recruiting, onboarding and building effective team cultures. Molly McGrath is the Founder and CEO of Hiring & Empowering Solutions and the author of Amazon’s top-#1 Best Seller: ‘Fix My Boss: The Simple Plan to Cultivate Respect, Risk Courageous Conversations, and Increase the Bottom Line.’

Melinda Wittstock:

Molly McGrath will be here in a moment, and first: Have you voted? Made a plan to vote? Helping others get to the polls? Hope so. There are only 7 days left to make your voice heard, and as we say on this podcast, your voice is your value and your power. There is so much at stake in this election. It is NOT business as normal. Michelle Obama’s words are better than mine, so I am going to quote her verbatim: “So, I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m a little frustrated that some of us are choosing to ignore Donald Trump’s gross incompetence while asking Kamala to dazzle us at every turn. I hope that you’ll forgive me if I’m a little angry that we are indifferent to his erratic behavior, his obvious mental decline, his history as a convicted felon, a known … a known slumlord, a predator found liable for sexual abuse, all of this, while we pick apart Kamala’s answers from interviews that he doesn’t even have the courage to do, y’all. Can someone tell me why we are once again holding Kamala to a higher standard than her opponent? We expect her to be intelligent and articulate, to have a clear set of policies, to never show too much anger, to prove time and time again that she belongs. But for Trump, we expect nothing at all. No understanding of policy, no ability to put together a coherent argument, no honesty, no decency, no morals.” The playing field is anything but level, something we all experience as female founders. Like Kamala Harris, do you feel you have to always be so much better than the men around you to succeed? And then, there is our right as women to control our own bodies and access reproductive healthcare.  Addressing all the men in our lives, Michelle Obama went on: “I am asking y’all, from the core of my being, to take our lives seriously. Please. Do not put our lives in the hands of politicians. We are the ones with the knowledge and experience to know what we need. So please, please, do not hand our fate over to the likes of Trump, who knows nothing about us, who has shown deep contempt for us. Because a vote for him is a vote against us.” The stakes are high, very high. If you’re a woman. If you’re black. If you’re brown. If you’re LGBTQ. If you’re Palestinian. If you’re Jewish. Donald Trump’s hate filled racist and misogynist rally at New York’s Madison Square Garden on Sunday told us everything we need to know about what is at stake: our rights, our freedoms, our health, our wellbeing, our opportunities to succeed, and our democracy. Please vote.

Melinda Wittstock:

OK let’s get to it – how can we all get smarter about recruiting top talent into our businesses and avoid expensive hiring mistakes? Easier said than done, but today we get some great tips about how to do it right – and be prepared to get a bit out of your comfort zone.

Melinda Wittstock:

It starts with a compelling job ad that is going to connect emotionally with the exact type of candidate you’re looking for, while being vulnerably honest about where you’re at in your business, the challenges you’re facing, what matters to you, and the culture you’re building. Molly McGrath, who has been helping people recruit for several decades, says traditional job ads miss the mark, so today we deep dive into how to do it right – from the ad, to the interview process, and on to the all-important onboarding phase, something many busy entrepreneurs overlook.

Melinda Wittstock:

Molly McGrath has coached, consulted, and directed hundreds of CEOs and founders and over 4,500 law firms in executive-level leadership, continuous improvement, and team empowerment initiatives to infiltrate new markets, leverage partner ecosystems, and produce profitability. We talk about how energy, intuition, and insightful interview questions play pivotal roles in understanding a candidate’s true priorities and potential, plus the unique challenges women face in job applications and the evolving landscape of recruitment influenced by technology and employee-driven markets, and much more.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Molly McGrath and be sure to download the podcast app Podopolo so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

[INTERVIEW]

Melinda Wittstock:

Molly, welcome to Wings.

Molly McGrath:

Oh, thank you so much for having me today, Melinda. Excited to be here.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, we’re talking about what it takes to be an effective leader, so we could probably talk for hours about that. But obviously, you know, as an entrepreneur, a big part of your success is going to be, you know, the type of team members you can attract, how you can empower them, and how you can lead them to the kind of results you want to drive. So, what are the biggest, roadblocks in a way to becoming an effective leader?

Molly McGrath:

I think the first and foremost in my experience is the hiring process. Right. So it’s when you’re hiring and interviewing people, so often they have interview questions that are canned or downloaded from the Internet or chat GBT and about skillset, about knowledge and what have you, but versus having a really upfront conversation around vulnerability and your strengths and weaknesses as a quote unquote, owner, entrepreneur, operator, leader, my favorite, favorite candidates that I interview and then plays start with that upfront conversation to say, listen, you know, I work a lot with attorneys, which is, you know, a very, very hard industry. They’re strapped for time. They’re constantly stressed, high voltage, what have you. And I tell them, be you let them know, listen, I went to law school. They never taught us how to manage and lead and run a business or what have you, and this is really why I need you.

Molly McGrath:

So, when you hire people from a place of not that you need to manage them and you hire them from leadership, that is really where it starts. Because leadership, when you hire right, there’s very little need for management, in my opinion. Leadership is when you start with self-awareness, social awareness, self-governing, self-management, and asking people those questions during the hiring process, first and foremost. And so that’s number one. And then the number two, your role as a visionary, as an entrepreneur, when you hire, right, and you hire people that don’t need to be micromanaged or babysit, that they already have batteries included, your job is really to give them time, attention and feedback. We’re hiring human beings first, human doings of secondly. So, when you hire, right, I always tell my entrepreneurs in regards, they’ll say, I want somebody with experience. I need somebody who can hit the ground running.

Molly McGrath:

I don’t have time to train or onboard. I’m like, okay, great. It’s a given when you hire, right, that they have all that now. You still need to spend time with them. You still need to carve time out of your very busy week, especially, you know, as women entrepreneurs, where we leave our quote unquote job or business and then we go home and if we have children’s and families and duties, we’re clocking in for our next full-time gig. So really you’ve got to carve out time. And when you carve out time and hardwire in your calendar for a daily huddle for a weekly, what I’d like to call a stakeholders meeting and allow them to run the day and run the agenda. Um, it’s really that simple in my opinion.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, this is really important because I see a lot of founders make this mistake of, I’m going to hire somebody to do something, but it’s not necessarily tied to a why. Like what is the result that you want from this person, and you need this person to do that thing. How? Yeah, like you mentioned, how self-aware are you about your strengths and weaknesses? Like what should you be doubling down on, right. And delegating to somebody else? So, it starts with that self-awareness, the people you work with. How many people have that self-awareness to really know truly what their, what their genius, their zone of genius as opposed to excellence as opposed to competence as opposed to like zone of suck?

Molly McGrath:

Honestly, maybe in the beginning they don’t. But when I facilitate the conversation to pull that out of them. When it comes to hiring, so often people hire from the job description or the duties or they hire from pain. I just got off a call this morning where entrepreneurs growing, they’re on their way to clipping a million and a half. She’s doing it all herself, has young kids, what have you, and now. And she, it’s like, I can’t hire, I can’t find good people. And she, I said, tell me about your past two hires and why they left, et cetera. And she was hiring from pain and meaning that the first person that she interviews meets in the Zoom room, what have you, and they show up, oh, I love their energy.

Molly McGrath:

They’re so blah, blah, blah. They’re saying all the right words. You’re hired. No, really, if you can get very clear on your pain points of what’s not working and what no longer is the highest value administratively, what have you, that’s taking you out of your entrepreneurship and getting clear on that as step one. And then step two, really giving that list to the person in the interview, again, it comes down to vulnerability. So, when they have that self-awareness, the entrepreneur coupled with the vulnerability in addition to understanding the really powerful questions to ask an interview, I always say, throw out those interview questions that you download from the Internet and really speak into. Walk someone through your day, walk them through from a second that your eyes open and you’re navigating, you know, small children or school age children or whatever it might be, and then what it takes for you to get your first appointment, first meeting, whatever it be, and then be quiet and still and silent and see how the other person that you’re interviewing, let them, I always say, show you the math on how they’ve done this before. For another entrepreneur, it is, you know, one of my favorite ads I ever wrote for myself when I was first hiring, I was looking for a project manager.

Molly McGrath:

And truly, the ad that I wrote on Indeed, when I put it out there, I don’t know, maybe about ten years ago or what have you, was, I’m a single mom raising two children. My kids were in third and fifth grade at that time. And I’m running a business that’s on ready to skyrocket. But I need somebody that come in. I have no process, no systems. I’m working 12 hours. Are you the right person for this job? I had a shot that I had to literally shut that ad off in less than 90 minutes because I had 48 people apply. I had people that were going to my website and then sending me an email and showing a saying, I love working for female entrepreneurs like you in this exact position.

Molly McGrath:

Let me show you how I did it for my previous person or the person that I’m working for right now. My, my company’s remote. So, a lot of people were in the same boat wanting a remote position. But when you, when you’re really clear, you don’t need beautiful sops, you don’t need beautifully crafted job descriptions, what have you when you start there and the person that you’re interviewing or maybe someone on your team, maybe you have a sleeping giant right now. Maybe you have someone that you’re like, I don’t know if they’re a rock star or not, or what have you. Go back to basics and start the conversation there.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right? So that ad, by the way, is brilliant. Like, that’s wonderful. So, like, at an early stage where it is just you and you are looking for kind of, you know, project management, I don’t know, scrum master, you know, like, like I sort of support. How about, though, if you’re looking for a salesperson or you’re looking for an engineer, you know, as the company grows and you really have like a whole team and you’re the CEO, but it’s not necessarily just about you personally. Like, they’re not necessarily people that are going to be interacting with you personally day to day or they might be or whatever. How does that kind of advertising approach change?

Molly McGrath:

In that case, advertising right now has changed significantly. We all know that it’s an employee driven market. So, when you’re looking for somebody as you’re scaling up and growing or what have you, and you want somebody who has the mindset, they come, batteries included, they are already employed. People are not applying for jobs anymore. So, your ads need to be very different. What we do and what I recommend for a lot of my clients is think of it like you’re writing a match.com ad, like you’re trying to attract your, you know, the love of your life, if you will. Yeah, of course you’re going to have your qualifications in there for SEO and SMO and all that. You need that because right now anymore, all of these job boards and the entire employment and recruiting industry is based on algorithm, SEO and pay per click and AI.

Molly McGrath:

You have to be really intentional about the words engineer, salesperson and use it over and over again from a keyword search perspective. But you want to write an ad that stands out and beats all of your competition. Because even if you’re doing recruiting for passive candidates or what have, you still have to drive them through the ads, drive them back to the ad. So, the old long form ads of requirements, qualifications written, you know, from the owner’s perspective, you want to attract people that will raise their hand, and you want to talk to them as quick as possible. Time kills all deals.  If you’re an entrepreneur, you’re the owner operator. Delegate this to somebody on your team that you trust that can at least facilitate this for sourcing and finding passive candidates. So, number one, it’s the ad.

Molly McGrath:

It has to be disruptive; it has to be very engaging and empowering for somebody to feel like they could see their self in your business. They’re like, wow, I can’t wait to talk to this person. I’m intrigued. And that’s the first emotion you want. And the second emotion is for them to raise their hand, say, yeah, sure, I’d be interested in hopping on a call with you. And then lastly, the next piece outside the ad is the video. Right now, most employers, and especially if you’re in a really big organization or using a recruiter, are still using old tactics. I have a lot of my clients make a three-minute video, what have you kind of talking about the culture, not the job duties, not the requirements.

Molly McGrath:

What have you really selling your firm, because recruiting and staffing is sales right now. And that video will convert higher and just like knock, you will get the best rockstar candidates from that.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, attracting the right people. And that requires you being just really honest, really transparent. And so, all the requirements and all that kind of stuff, obviously you’re going to get into later in the conversation, but things like qualifications. So does that not even, I mean, in an ad. This is just blowing my mind.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, like, I’ve seen so many job ads and they literally say, okay, like, you have to be this, you have to have, you know, at least ten years’ experience doing x, y, z.

Molly McGrath:

They do great questions and great clarification. They go in there, but they’re really clear and precise. They don’t have 15 bullet points, like anymore. Must understand Microsoft Word or sweet. Must be like those things are sort of a given and nobody reads them anymore. You put it in the past, people would put them as bullet points after the kind of quote unquote job description in the beginning. And then they would have the qualifications with bullet points. I put it right up front.

Molly McGrath:

Staff a lot for law firms is by and large a majority of my business. So, of course, you have to be licensed and state specific. You have to have years of experience. If you’re trial attorney, you do need to have trial experiences, either first chair, second chair, what have you. So, there are in engineering, all that, there are very specific that you must have. But put that first and foremost in the front of the ad and, you know, beef sometimes the years of experience, I will say this so often people like, they must have ten plus years’ experience, but you might be weeding out a candidate that is phenomenal and only has seven years’ experience because you have the human being and the human doing and the organizations that they work for previously that might have the most amazing training, onboarding, professional development, things that they invest in, their team members. So just if you have must ten plus years’ experience, you know, is it be really clear on why that is or if we just kind of have what I like to call some old stories and stuff in our head that we feel like people. Well, when I was blah, blah, blah in that position, I really didn’t hit my peak until I was seven years.

Molly McGrath:

But you may have started out 20 years ago and the massive, abundant access to professional and personal development at lightning speed at this day and time, what took you ten years to learn now can take somebody 24 months.

Melinda Wittstock:

That is such an important clarification because I think we confuse that. We think that the time is the issue and it’s not. It’s really the result. It’s like you’ve delivered these kinds of results previously and it’s amazing.

Molly McGrath:

Yes, yes. I see that every day. Even, especially, you know, with positions to call it sales, call it CEO or what have you, because again, you’re hiring the human being. And our early years of upbringing and conditioning and exposure and things to that nature are a very important piece of the puzzle.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, this is interesting too, from the lens of male versus female applicants, because if you put in, must have done this or have this kind of qualification, men go right through that and apply anyway. Whereas women really take it literally.

Molly McGrath:

Oh, absolutely. Not only did they take it literally, but we are taking out a huge equation, especially if they were stay at home taking care of aging parents or, you know, part of the sandwich generation, running, raising children, raising parents, all that thing of that nature women do, because take that very literally. And so, I do take that out of my ads in the beginning because again, I have a recruiting agency, so I have ‘sourcers’, I have poachers. I have, you know, we’re, we are just combing, we’re sharks every single day. I want to know people’s personal story. And so, for me to hop on a phone call with them for 15 minutes or what have you and get their story where, no, I maybe don’t have ten years of engineering experience or what have you. But I grew up in an engineering household. I was running my father’s.

Molly McGrath:

I was working at nights or weekends or part time and my father’s engineering agency or what have you, but I’m not going to put that on my resume because blah, blah, blah. And when you get the personal person’s personal story resumes and this one thing I will say, too, with AI and with technology at lightning speed right now, I cannot tell you how many people that I reach out to. And I say to them, well, it looks like you haven’t worked in two years. And they said, what are you talking about? And they’re like, where’d you get that resume? Well, I know better now because I hear that every day. But job ads anymore with smartphones and AI and technology, if somebody’s a salesperson or what have you, they see your ad pop, pop up on ZipRecruiter, LinkedIn, all the channels, indeed, what have you, and they get a notification. Whether they’re gainfully employed, unemployed, passive candidate, what have you. It’s called a one click apply so they can get a notice, and they could literally hit apply to all job boards, all platforms, what have you. But we’re at the mercy of, for example, indeed is the worst algorithm on planet Earth, that their technology is so incredibly outdated.

Molly McGrath:

I would say eight out of ten people that I talked to, when I reference their resume, they’re like, where in the world did you get that? It’s not updating, it’s not performing. So, you want to talk to people as quick as possible and really get their story because a lot of times people will not error operating out of olden school modalities and they’re not up on technology with smartphones and one click apply and all that. And when people see the word must, especially women, in my experience, women by and large are pretty attention detail, incredibly driven with integrity and what have you. They want to make certain that they dot their I’s, cross their t’s. I have literally reached out to people, and they will say me. Well, I read the ad, and I don’t know that specific CRM that you have within that, but I use Salesforce, but they don’t have Clio or what have you. I’m like, oh my gosh, Salesforce is the motherload.

Molly McGrath:

Like if you figure out Salesforce, you can master anything. You can master anything.

Melinda Wittstock:

Oh man, that’s funny. And so, yeah, literally women do rule them out, rule themselves out of things. And so, when you’re thinking about, you know, just different stages of growth, right? When is it the right time to bring in someone like you to really do all that for you? Because it’s a huge process to do on your own, right? Like say, you know, you’re a startup, you’re a growth stage startup, okay? You get your funding and off you go. You got like a whole bunch of people to hire a, and you don’t necessarily have hiring systems in place or any of that, let alone onboarding systems and such. So, it can be completely. That growth stage can be so overwhelming.

Molly McGrath:

Yeah.

Melinda Wittstock:

How do you suggest people walk through that? Because I think that’s where a lot of mistakes get made. And if you make the wrong hire at that stage, that can be. Absolutely. Kill your company.

Molly McGrath:

Absolutely, it can. So, if you’re hanging your own shingle and money is, you know, tight and things that nature, maybe you don’t have as many clients and time is your greatest availability that you have, then you could do it yourself. Time kills all deals and staffing way before even the wrong hire or things of that nature. The time to hire and use a professional recruiter is when you are. When you are already feeling strapped and you don’t have the time, you don’t trust your intuition because you’re. You probably should have hired three months, six months, what have you. If there’s a lot of emotion and exhaustion within it, and there’s a lot of have to in it, then I would say use a professional because they’re neutral, they’re de energized, and they’re working for you.

Molly McGrath:

So, if you can delegate that as much as possible, I believe it is the greatest investment within that I be, you know when to hire in youth, a professional, a recruiter. I believe you always should. Unless you have nothing but time on your hand and you are emotionally detached from it. There’s no have to. It’s a get to. It’s that you’re deeply curious, you’re ready to explore it, things of that nature. But you’re serious about hiring, and you’re willing to put the time and energy and the work into it, taking some of the tips that we are talking about, talking about today. But if all of those things are in the driver’s, the emotion, stress, lack of time, lack of sleep, exhaustion, need someone.

Molly McGrath:

I would very much delegate that to someone else because you’re just way too close to it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. So, you mentioned you work mostly in the legal profession. Do you do other areas as well? And tell me about your process of, say, with a client like me. Say Podopolo. It’s an AI and blockchain podcasting company. We’ve got to hire a whole bunch of people, and it is kind of overwhelming. So, so what’s your process?

Molly McGrath:

Yes, absolutely. So yeah, I mostly work in legal. That’s where I landed and started my career 30 years ago. I’ve owned a couple of legal organizations. So that’s just by and large, I’ve worked with engineers, financial advisors, by and large, a lot of professional services versus e-comm and product services. But nonetheless, my process is first and foremost, if you are going to hire a recruiter, make sure they do flat fee retained search recruiting. I do. I love that model because I, it is not commission based.

Molly McGrath:

I’m not going to come to you, Melinda, and say, I found you a rockstar salesperson. You have to pay them in 150,000 base plus blah, blah, blah, because then it’s more money in my pocket. Recruiters right now because of definitely before the pandemic, in the thick of the pandemic, post pandemic are clipping anywhere on the average at 28% of annual salary and salaries are higher now. And so that would be first and foremost is make certain you find someone who does flat fee retained search, so they’re invested in finding you the best person, regardless of the salary. Our process is that we and for anyone who want hopefully taking notes and be able to implement this, is that first and foremost we get really, really clear and interview the entrepreneur, hiring manager, whoever it might be, on the what’s not working, like what is sucking the soul out of you and keep it waking you up at 02:00 in the morning. And you know that you’re never going to be able to grow and scale unless you hire somebody to take this off your plate. So, I tell people, track everything for a week, do a time effectiveness exercise, whether it’s on a good old fashioned sticky note, a word document, notes in your smartphone, whatever it might be, of everything that you touch. And is this the highest value of your time in energy and leveraging and scaling? And then from there, that’s really where to maybe either crop the job description or up level.

Molly McGrath:

The job description also gives the recruiter or the interviewer some really powerful questions to anchor to when they’re interviewing the candidates. So, then we place, and we create a really compelling, empowering ad that would have somebody reads. And this what a lot of times candidates will tell me, it’s like I replied to your ad because I can actually, I felt like I was walking through the office and walking through my day on the way that you described it. So of course you’ll have a title, what you’re looking for salesperson, what have you. But you want somebody to really feel like from sentence number one, it’s communicating your core values. It’s communicating the energy that they’re going to experience right from the interviewing process to accepting the offer, letter, place the ad, and then from there, I would spend heavier. Team members very much have to spend time on passive candidates and in boxing people and being creative with the subject line and the message that they’re sending to them. Like I said earlier, the video really, really works.

Molly McGrath:

We find candidates. Once we get candidates, we do a 15-minute phone interview. Email doesn’t work a whole lot anymore. Texting is so much quicker. A lot of people, well, phone calls don’t work because now it shows up as spam. People don’t necessarily answer their phones. I try to engage with a candidate as quick as possible.

Molly McGrath:

Hey, you look like a rock star of a phenomenal organization. Are you interested in a ten-minute, 15 minutes phone call? And so, I could tell you a little bit about the company and see if it’s something you’re interested in exploring. And just as quick as possible, you get on the phone with them and then just hit the details quickly. I can’t tell you how many people talk about job description, duties, what have you, and they don’t talk about money, benefits, or what have you, so that it’s in person versus remote, or it’s 100% remote. It’s international, whatever it might be. I go straight to the heart of the matter and hit the logistics first. Phenomenal company, blah, blah, blah. Melinda, you know, roughly, we’re thinking of offering around 100,000 base, or I don’t even ask that.

Molly McGrath:

Let me back up. That’s in the second interview, I say to them, what do you need to see to make a move right now? Like, talk to me. I will literally just say that. All right, what are you looking for base salary, what have you. And they’ll say, well, it’s negotiable. And for employment laws, what have you. Can’t ask a candidate how much they’re making right now. But I’m like, what do you need to even going through this process, put food on your table, gas in your tank, what have you.

Molly McGrath:

They’ll say, maybe 200,000. And I’m like, okay, conversation’s over. Because that’s not an even close in the ballpark. It’s amazing how many people will say, well, that’s my ideal, but right now, you know, then they’ll start divulging. I’m making 85. If it’s like 100 base, what have you. I’m like, great. Or I’ll say, do you need health benefits? 100% need health benefits.

Molly McGrath:

Okay, conversation over. So just get to it really quick and they appreciate it. I can’t tell you how many people say to me, you were like the only recruiter or employer that actually talks about money within the first three minutes. I’m like, it’s a waste of everyone’s time.

Melinda Wittstock:

I had an experience, like last year recruiting a pretty high-level position, and we did the dance, but I never got to it directly. Like, look, this is a pre revenue startup. We’re here, we’re there, this is a, our plan, here’s where we’re going, blah, blah, blah. But like, never really got specifically into the salary. And then, and then, you know, after all this time and investment, this person wanted like, I don’t know, like a $400,000 salary. I was like, right, yeah, no, yes.

Molly McGrath:

Which, yeah. And they appreciate it so much, too. And so doing that, and then once they pass that, then I set up a Zoom interview. And then, you know, by this time, its second, you know, kind of date, if you will. So, they’re, they’re a little more real, sometimes sloppy, sometimes really polished. And then I have a Zoom interview for about 30 minutes, and I record it, and then I send it over to my clients to protect their time. They’re busy entrepreneurs, so if you have someone in your team adopt this process. And again, I just go right to real raw, vulnerable, like relevant questions in regards to that.

Molly McGrath:

And so, then if the, if the attorney or my client or whatever likes the candidate, then we set up the face-to-face interview. When they say, yep, I’m interested in meeting them. We do background checks, social media checks, all that right then and there. I can’t tell you how many people wait until offer letter. And the stuff I find on the federal and criminal and county background checks is amazing. We say that upfront too, you know, that we’re going to be running a background check. Is there anything that you’re concerned that we’ll find? And I love it because sometimes people will say, you might find that. I got a Dui nine years ago.

Molly McGrath:

I was in my early twenties. It was a blah, blah, blah. I’m like, great, okay, well, to me, that’s an amazing candidate. I’m not going to judge them for that. But they’re honest, they’re upfront, they’re clear, they’re responsible and things of that nature.

Melinda Wittstock:

This is so good. I love this. This is fantastic. So, what, Molly, what made you get into the whole, like, recruitment and leadership space to begin with?

Molly McGrath:

Great question. For me. When I got my first real job, I worked in city government, what have you. So, I was basically being counter clocking at a clock out of four, do my mundane tasks, what have you. When I said 27 years old, I moved from New York to Colorado, where I reside right now, and answered an ad in the paper. And interesting. I never thought of this until you just said this. I was not qualified for that position.

Molly McGrath:

Honestly, if I look back at all the requirements and qualifications, they had it, but I was just applying. It was back then when you were mailing in resumes, there was no Internet, there was none of that class classified ads and a paper. And I got an interview with a national organization for estate planning and asset protection attorneys and went in for the face-to-face interview. Had a great interview. And the interviewer, he said to me, listen, you do not have the qualifications for this position. However, I see in you that you’re a hard worker, that you are deeply curious, you are eager to learn, to what have you. I’m taking a chance on you, and I’m hiring you. And I started out that organization at 27 years old.

Molly McGrath:

I started out as a project manager within there, it was a project manager position, administrative assistant to the project manager, moved into project manager, long story short, became a partner within that company. This fell 28 years ago. So, somebody saw something in me, maybe that I didn’t even see in myself and took a chance on me. And so, from that place, I would go to these conferences all over the country. They would offer these conferences every 90 days, and I would go to the breakfast or the cocktail reception with the attorneys, and they would say over and over and over again, how can I find a molly? How can you clone yourself? And from there, I really started a staffing agency as a division of that organization that I since has shown sold my shares, and I fully own this company now. But just really believing in people and helping, seeing greatness and people and helping to pour into them and invest in them with personal and professional development, it just really became a passion of mine. There’s nothing greater than when I still get emails or phone calls or see people calling me. I have a law firm admin boot camp where I train people on how to walk, talk, and act like a CEO, right down to the receptionist, and they will say to me, you hired me 15 years ago, and now I’ve grown this business from we are barely making payroll to $5 million to $10 million, what have you.

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Melinda Wittstock:

And we’re back with Molly McGrath, Founder and CEO of Hiring & Empowering Solutions and the author of Amazon’s top-#1 Best Seller: ‘Fix My Boss: The Simple Plan to Cultivate Respect, Risk Courageous Conversations, and Increase the Bottom Line.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES]

Melinda Wittstock:

You know, Molly, that’s so amazing that you had that experience where someone took a chance on you, right. And it sounds like that was such a huge impetus for you that you’ve applied that in, in your business, right, in the way that you actually hire other people. I think people have so many different pathways, you know, to get to where they’re going, and there’s so many kind of, you know, every entrepreneur group, right? Like, higher on character, higher on all these things, and yet sometimes we lack the ability in the rush and whatnot, to be able to really evaluate that, like, to really evaluate someone’s mindset or their character or do they, do they have integrity? Do they fit with your values? All of these sorts of things. Are there any specific questions that you are go to questions or ways that you, you evaluate that? Like, that, that person who saw in you. So even though you weren’t quote unquote, qualified, you know, what were the questions they were asking you? How did they ascertain that? How do you ascertain that?

Molly McGrath:

You know, it’s, for me, it starts with energy. I always say you’re responsible for the energy you bring in the room and leave in the room. So, when they show up in the zoom room, I trust my intuition. I could tell pretty quickly how they show up with not just their tire and their professionalism would have you, but when I ask a question of tell me today why you’re talking to a recruiter. And so often people will say, well, there’s no opportunity for growth. I always have a powerful question. I want them to show me what it looks like, feels like an x, like, for growth. And I would literally say that.

Molly McGrath:

So, nine out of ten people are going to tell you, well, there’s no opportunity for growth here. I’m just looking for more opportunities for growth. And, like, tell me what that means to you. What would it look like? You’re not seeing it today. What would it look like when you do have it? And I cannot tell you how often, 100% of the time, when you really have your coach hat on, where it really comes down to communication, it comes down, well, it, what it would look like for me is that we have weekly meetings that we’re tracking on our progress that were, it comes down to the busy entrepreneurs, managers, leaders, what have you, quote unquote, don’t have time for their people. It’s never. I’ve had people take $30,000 pay cuts to come work for an entrepreneur, for a business that invests heavily, heavily in over communication with them. I’m not talking about Slack channels.

Molly McGrath:

I’m not talking about communication, ping pong and email. I’m talking about face to face, eyeball to eyeball, breaking bread, and see you as a human being versus a human doing so. The questions are, when people say opportunity for growth and things that nature. It’s not that I was passed up for promotion, because I will say, well, this next, you will always. You may be passed up for a promotion at the next one. Now what are you going to job hop? Tell me what that feels like and I’ll ask them questions. Tell me what you’re looking for within a company. What does a leadership look like? What does it feel like? And I always use that feeling word, you know, it’s that they fill you up, that they guide you, that your boss understands that they’re a mentor, not necessarily a manager.

Molly McGrath:

They tend to be friend versus command and control. You know, they’re things of that nature. They really empower their people. There are so many buzzwords out there, like culture and character and integrity that I think a lot of times people can’t articulate. Like, what does that look like? It’s super granular for me here. And that’s why it’s great for a recruiter, because they, when you use a recruiter, the candidates tend to think that we’re working for them like we’re a headhunter, which is a big difference between a headhunter and a recruiter. And they overshare and they share a lot of that. So, when they answer a question, don’t gloss over it.

Molly McGrath:

Ask the question behind the question consistently until you feel like. And you can see that shift in the candidate where it really landed in their bones and their blood.

Melinda Wittstock:

I think the other area where it goes wrong is you do this hiring, say you do the hiring great, and all this whole piece and the person starting, but then the onboarding doesn’t work well. So how, what’s going wrong there? And how does a company really prepare to get that onboarding system right? And what makes the onboarding system in that 1st 90 days’ work and work well?

Molly McGrath:

I love it. Onboarding. It’s so incredibly tricky, especially if you don’t have Sops and the HR team and all that. And even when you do. So, for me, in my recruiting process, I make my clients go through a six-month onboarding with myself, my team, where you’re facilitating that conversation. KPI is another buzzword by key performance indicators. But from day one, you’re getting very clear in the first 30 days, the following will be occurring persistently and consistently that we can track and measure. So that’s my question. I asked day one of the employee to the employer and the new employee. I say, when we’re sitting here in 30 days and you can wave a magic, Wanda, and this is the best investment of your time, money, and energy employer of bringing on this new employee, what would be occurring? And I have them, I like to call it puke it out. I hold the puke bucket. I’m like, just brain dump it out. We’re pulling the junk drawer out, and we’re dumping it on the, on the conference room table, if you will.

Molly McGrath:

I have them list them, and usually they’re like, 1520 things, what have you. And then we backtrack, and we go through every single one. How would we track and measure this? How would we. What have you. Is this realistic that this is a 30-day goal? Because sometimes they’re like, no, actually it’s a 90 day. Okay, I’m going to put it in the 90-day scorecard now. Let’s get really clear, and then at the end, clarify and verify.

Molly McGrath:

So having the new employee actually be present in the responsible, because it’s a two-sided relationship for their onboarding. So, great. I will be doing this and that, and this is how I believe we’re going to track it. What have you. We’re going to be able to pull a report out of this CRM. The conversion rates are currently clipping at 24.2% within 30 days. I think 36.5 is acceptable. What have you.

Molly McGrath:

From, you know, initial lead to conversion to booked consultation or consultation to hire. Two different conversion rates. Everybody just wants to go, oh, we’re getting ten hires a week. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back into it. There are four other KPI’s. Before we get to that one, that one’s actually number five. And then just making certain, you’re like, okay, great.

Molly McGrath:

Well, you don’t even have a CRM with workflow. So is this really conducive is first goal that they’re going to start getting the reporting out of the meet with the it team to get the fields that you want to get the reporting out, et cetera. So, for onboarding. So often people will hire them, shove a manual in their face, and then also, or stick them in a room and have them watch videos and things that nature. You have to. In the interviewing process, especially, and even for your existing team, you might want to go back and really do an evaluation to see how each individual learns, how they’d like to give information and receive information. I always believe in teach, show, do go grow is my model for onboarding. You teach them, you show them, which is modeling and shadowing, then you allow them to do it.

Molly McGrath:

Then they come back, and they report and present to you what they did. You shoot holes in it, you refine it, what have you, and then it’s done. And then they’re able to grow in that one area.

Melinda Wittstock:

And this is a process that your firm does like, you’re involved in that onboarding process as well as the hiring process?

Molly McGrath:

Absolutely. I believe so passionately about onboarding. I learned this the wrong way in my early years where I would hire candidates. And lo and behold, about two, three weeks in, whatever it might be, I’d get the, the email that the subject line is, do you have a minute? It to talk dot? I’m like, I already know what this is, you know? And so, it now in my guarantee, because I do a six-month guarantee. Most recruiters do 90 days. I put in there that if you do not show up for these onboarding calls and give your new employee the space and grace and respect your time, if you ditch them, if you don’t schedule them, if you don’t calendar them, your guarantees, null and Boyd. That’s how important I feel about the onboarding.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s amazing. It’s just such a better, so much better way, you know, to hire. So sometimes, you know, it’s entrepreneurs. And I put myself in this category. Like, we’re sort of wired. We want to go fast, right? Everything has to be really, really quick. How much of what we do is very intuitive to us. And the thing that makes us sometimes really great entrepreneurs doesn’t necessarily make us really great leaders.

Melinda Wittstock:

And as you start, so you start and the company is just you, and then there’s a couple people, but then you go into that growth phase where literally, as a CEO, you’ve got to be something different than you were in the early stages, like just getting good at delegating, being able to let go, being aware of where you are at the stage of the growth of your company. And so, you know, the founder mindset is going to come into all of this and just actually skills you may not have, like you just may not be really great at recruiting. This may be completely new to you, and you think you know what you’re doing or you think that people understand what you want. I mean, there’s so many mistakes that can be made in this whole period as you’re transitioning your role. So how do you coach founders like, you know, through that process to literally like their job is their own role is changing necessarily?

Molly McGrath:

Great question. I think it really starts with being really clear on your role. So, you made it great. You said a lot of you’re an entrepreneur, I can’t tell you how many business owners I do meet with, and they own a business, but they’re not very entrepreneurial and no shame blame weaponizing in that, but get really clear on your unique ability. So, so often there’ll be business owners that really like they own their own business for whatever reason they have it. They started their business for whatever their ‘why’ is. But they’re really technicians and managers at heart. And I’m surprised to find how many entrepreneurs are that.

Molly McGrath:

But they can’t grow in scale because, because they need to step into the visionary role. They need to stop into the entrepreneurial world. So sometimes you just have to be really clear on who you are and your soul and your DNA. If you love managing, you love administration, you love drafting documents or whatever it is, but you’re the business owner, then you need to get, my recommendation is hire a professional consultant that can support you with really amping up and stepping into your unique ability as an entrepreneur. If you’re entrepreneur to the core, you know, by and large entrepreneurs, we have an attention span of a bedbug. We’re constantly changing things. We have so many entrepreneurs say to me, I need to tell you something.

Molly McGrath:

I’m like, that’s bullet point number one in all of our job descriptions. Like, you know, we could juggle 42 plates at once, but not well. So being really clear at that, if you don’t have the organization, the management, the attention, detail and things of that nature, being clear upfront on who you are and making certain that you are hiring, right. Hiring the opposite of you, you know, in that place when you know, because here’s the deal. When we’re hiring and we’re the investing money into bringing people on and we want an ROI and a KPI and a return on investment and all that stuff from this person. There’s a new rulebook for us as entrepreneurs. So, you might be moving into speaking more. You might be moving into podcasting.

Molly McGrath:

You might be moving into writing a book, or maybe you’re moving into sales because you’re hiring an operations person or what have you. Just get really clear on what your next level is and what your new rule book is, because we need that more than even our employees as entrepreneurs.

Melinda Wittstock:

Exactly. There is so much more that we could talk about here. I. You’ll have to come back another time on this podcast.

Molly McGrath:

I would love to.

Melinda Wittstock:

We didn’t even get into your book, but I’ll mention your book, of course. You have a wonderful book called Fix My Boss. The simple plan to cultivate respect, risk, courageous conversations, and increase the bottom line. So, I will make sure that everyone knows how to find that and how to follow you on social media and tell me more about your ideal client, like what you’re looking for in a client.

Molly McGrath:

You know, my ideal client is somebody who is vulnerable, real and wrong. It doesn’t, it’s not based on number of employees, profit margins, anything of that nature. If you’re willing to admit I suck at leadership. I’m terrible at managing people. I can’t keep people. I’m in the weeds. I’m working 40 hours. I’m about ready to close it up and go open a hot dog shop or whatever.

Molly McGrath:

Those are my favorite clients, people who are willing to be coachable and they’re willing to invest in people. The other thing is that they’re willing to pay people right and give them their time and attention. And once they have the confidence that they understand their specific system, process, business model, things that nature, that they’re willing to allow. Let go and allow them to run the operations, but they’re also willing to up level their game and have a whole new job description for them as an entrepreneur or c suite leader.

Melinda Wittstock:

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings today and flying with us.

Molly McGrath:

Thank you so much, Melinda, for having me. Great conversation.

[INTERVIEW ENDS]

Melinda Wittstock:

Molly McGrath is the Founder and CEO of Hiring & Empowering Solutions and the author of Amazon’s top-#1 Best Seller: ‘Fix My Boss: The Simple Plan to Cultivate Respect, Risk Courageous Conversations, and Increase the Bottom Line.’

Melinda Wittstock:

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Melinda Wittstock:

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