690 Suzannah Raff:

The secret of entrepreneurship is all about innovating a compelling and differentiated solution to a big enough problem experienced by a big enough market with an effective strategy of getting the word out to the right target market … easier said than done, right? My guest today Suzannah Raff takes us through how she’s built and is now scaling Cleo+Coco, the  award-winning natural deodorants company.

MELINDA

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock and welcome to Wings of Inspired Business, where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I’m a 5-time serial entrepreneur who has lived and breathed the ups and downs of starting and growing businesses, currently the game changing social podcast app Podopolo. Wherever you are listening to this, take a moment and join the Wings community over on Podopolo, where we can take the conversation further with your questions, perspectives, experiences, and advice for other female founders at whatever stage of the journey you’re at! Because together we’re stronger, and we soar higher when we fly together.

Today we focus in on what it takes to create a consumer brand with Suzannah Raff, the founder and CEO of Cleo and Coco. Suzannah is also a mother of 4, who got her inspiration to create healthy deodorants as a result of her father’s illness. She’s got a big vision for her brand, and she says it’s growth is also tied to her own commitment to live an authentic life spiritually, physically, and professionally.

Years before Suzannah Raff developed Cleo+Coco’s award-winning natural deodorants, she was famous among her friends for smelling amazing, mixing and blending perfumes to make her own signature scent. When her father was recovering in the hospital from a serious illness, she found her way to the healing properties of essential oils and their beautiful scents. She began to use them in her home, and for her own health and wellbeing. Then, along came the clean eating movement. Having been taught from a young age to eat healthy and take care of her body, she became an avid student of this clean movement. When she got married and pregnant, Suzannah suddenly became very sensitive to the chemicals she was putting on her body. It was not long before all of her perfumed skin care products and antiperspirants went into the garbage.

But there was one problem: Suzannah could not find an aluminum-free deodorant that could handle her fluctuating hormones, sweat, and odor. So, she took out her essential oils and began creating her own deodorant that was natural, free from synthetic fragrance, sensitive enough for pregnant and nursing moms, yet still powerful enough to combat body odor. It took a good year of experimenting with the perfect mix of ingredients to get to the point where she could claim with complete confidence that Cleo+Coco offered all-day odor control. Once she created the perfect formula, she had a vision for what deodorant should be — a product that you love to put on every day. Not just something that we brainlessly tolerate to prevent uncomfortable body odor, but a deodorant could feel, look, and smell luxurious.

Today Suzannah shares all the challenges along the way to create Cleo+Coco, plus the dangers of the chemicals and fragrances we put on our skin, and much more. So, listen on and be sure to join the conversation with Suzannah and me over on Podopolo, the must-download app for personalized and interactive podcasting.

Now let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Suzannah Raff.

Melinda Wittstock:

Suzannah, welcome to Wings.

Suzannah Raff:

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:

I am so excited to talk to you because I always love the founder story where you experience something personally in your life, and there’s something that makes you put your hand up and say, I am going to be the one that goes and solves it. What was the kind of eureka moment there that really got you on the path to founding Cleo+Coco?

Suzannah Raff:

Great question. So I really started like a lot of people. I started to eat clean and then [inaudible 00:00:47] ingredients. And then I started to only want to put clean aluminum free, really clean products on my body. I realized that deodorant was, well, I couldn’t find an aluminum free natural deodorant that worked for me. I realized that deodorant and personal care in general was really a category that really needed to be improved. I actually come from a continuous quality improvement background. So that eureka moment was when I kind of said, well, here is product and category that needs a lot of improvements.

Melinda Wittstock:

So let’s dig into this because I think a lot of people aren’t necessarily aware of what is actually in the products that we put on our body, whether it’s skincare, deodorant, sunscreen. So talk to me about aluminum. What does that actually do to you?

Suzannah Raff:

So aluminum can come in different forms of salt, but it’s used in antiperspirants. It clogs the pores under your arms and prevents sweat from coming out. That’s what we’ve been using for the last hundred plus years as antiperspirant. It’s just a very questionable ingredient. Aluminum might be linked to Alzheimer’s. It might be linked to cancer. There’s definitely been aluminum found in cancer cells. Even though there’s no … I guess the data is still very iffy about whether it really 100% confidently leads to cancer. We always say if and doubt, leave it out. It’s not considered a clean ingredient. A lot of survivors are told by their doctors, don’t use aluminum under your arms. So we just don’t want to put aluminum on our body, especially under our arms next to all of these important glands.

That’s number one. We just don’t want to put these questionable ingredients on our body. Why take a chance? And number two, we really shouldn’t be clogging our pores and blocking our sweat glands. Our sweat glands are there to perform a really important health function. We want to sweat. That’s how we detox on a regular basis. That’s how our body eliminates toxins from the body. So, blocking that is not ideal. That’s where in the last couple of years, aluminum free deodorants are being discussed and are becoming much more popular. So that’s the low down. So we have natural deodorants that contain no aluminum. We got very creative and did a lot of research with chemists to find ingredients that are not only not harmful to your body, but that are really rich vitamins and nutrients, and will nourish your body and are better for your body in order to eliminate body odor and absorb wetness.

Melinda Wittstock:

So what was it like starting this up? So you see the problem and you say, okay, I have to be the one to go fix it. What was the thought process in there? We’ll go through your entrepreneurial journey, but what was the first thing you did when you said, okay, it’s going to be me.

Suzannah Raff:

I did a lot of research. That was the first thing I did. I probably backed up on my training. First, I probably tested every single natural deodorant on the market. I did a lot of research. I studied ingredients. I spoke to chemists and manufacturers and I began to start formulating deodorant that was aluminum free, but we really took it many levels above and beyond aluminum free. I just felt that being aluminum free wasn’t enough. This is a product that really should give you just a better overall experience. You want a nice creamy texture, so that to soften your skin, not go on like sandy, like cardboard. Nobody wants white or gray stains under their arms. You don’t want these white smears. So it should glide on really, like we call it creamy and clear with skin care, high end skin care ingredients.

We really felt that it should smell really good, and without any synthetic fragrance. So a lot of the natural deodorants that are aluminum free, they kind of mask the odor with synthetic fragrance. It’s like putting bit of perfume under your arms. So we don’t do that. We’re just really using odor fighting ingredients instead of synthetic fragrance. We use essential oils that really just uplift your day and just offer a mood boosting scent. We also have scent free options, which just shows how confident we are that our formula is going to work with or without any kind of essential oil fragrance.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. So the synthetic fragrance can be pretty toxic too. I think a lot of people don’t actually understand, whether we have candles burning in the house or room sprays or in deodorant. The fragrance, we think, That’s so refreshing. That’s wonderful. But it’s actually bad for us.

Suzannah Raff:

Really, it can disrupt your hormones. People with asthma and all, maybe don’t even realize that they’re being triggered by it. I remember I had an allergist tell me that they had somebody come in complaining of migraines, like chronic migraines. He said, as the person walked into the office, the smell of their perfume … it was actually a very famous men’s under arm, antiperspirant that is very high in fragrance. They said, just stop using that product and let’s see if your migraines go away. Yeah, synthetic fragrance, we don’t realize. Especially the candles and everything. So we do not use any synthetic fragrance in our product because they could have lots of different negative side effects.

Melinda Wittstock:

These things are so important, and yet the awareness of it, I guess, is growing. More and more people are becoming aware of these things. But when you look at your whole market, how much education do you have to do of consumers to help them understand what they’re putting in or on their body can have these terrible effects?

Suzannah Raff:

How much education? That’s a great point. A lot of consumers are doing this research on their own, just like I did, and coming to the conclusion on their own, and are looking for aluminum free deodorants. There’s a huge shift happening in the marketplace. If you look at the stores, look at Target, look at the drug stores, you’ll see that a lot of the conventional traditional brands that used to always be there have now been replaced by cleaner, more natural brands. So this really is a slow shift that’s taking place. When I found a Cleo+Coco a few years ago, I saw that are at the very beginning of this big shift.

So yes, there’s a lot of consumer information, but we’re living in an age where consumers are really reading ingredients and doing a lot of that education on their own. We’re here to supplement that education and to give you lots of answers. I guess I’d say like 50% of our customers are learning about it for the first time, maybe through a podcast like yours, or they’ve already heard about it and they’re coming to us because they’re doing their research and they’ve done their homework.

Melinda Wittstock:

This is so, so important. So let’s continue to go back in time a little bit. So there you are, you’re getting going, you’ve done your research. What were some of the challenges you had along the way? Cause when I think of all the things that comes into developing a product, it’s like, where is it being manufactured? How do you know that the supply chain is clean? How do you know all those kinds of things? Take me through the process of what you went through and where the challenges were.

Suzannah Raff:

So everything you said, from finding the right manufacturer, perfecting the formula. You may have a formula that tests really well in the lab, but can it scale? That’s of course the professional manufacturers know how to scale it, but with the new formula, the first run is always the scariest. Did it scale properly. But it’s finding the right suppliers. It comes a lot of research, really just looking into it, like you’re saying, making sure that if you’re clear about what your needs and requirements are, you just make sure that, I guess each partner checks off everything on your list. But every step of the way is definitely a challenge. I think the one thing I’ve done definitely learned about myself during this process is that I think I really enjoy a challenge and that’s why I do it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, that’s necessary for an entrepreneur. I don’t think an entrepreneur could succeed if we didn’t like challenges because they come a lot of the time and sometimes there’s things you can’t even control.

Suzannah Raff:

Oh, COVID and supply chain issues right now that everybody’s faced with, and sure. Yes. All the typical challenges that any entrepreneur and startup, especially a product based one, funding is a big one in, especially with supply chain delays. But we have an amazing product and the world really, really needs and deserves really clean, effective, personal care that offers the kind of beautiful luxurious experience that Cleo+Coco offers. So we persevere.

Melinda Wittstock:

A hundred percent. So Suzannah, tell me how it’s sold. Is it mostly sold online or do you have a retail footprint? How are you distributed? How do people find you?

Suzannah Raff:

People can find us. We have a very good digital footprint. You can find us at our website, CleoandCoco.com. We’re available at Target.com. We’re available Riteaid.com. We’re available on Neman Marcus. We also have a footprint, a retail, a physical footprint. You can find us in [inaudible 00:12:17] stores. We have a lot of boutiques all around the country, even in Canada, from the Four seasons in Canada, to some Fairmont. Lots of nice high end spas we’ll carry our product and smaller boutique stores. So we’re definitely becoming very, very accessible, especially digitally like anywhere online, on Amazon, Targets.com. Wherever you want to find us, you can have our product shipped to you within a day or two.

Melinda Wittstock:

It sounds like you’re distributed pretty far and wide. What was it like getting those partnerships and what did it take for you to be able to get your product into all these spas and all these retail facilities, as well as your own eCommerce business?

Suzannah Raff:

A great team.

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. Well, it always comes down to team at the end.

Suzannah Raff:

Right.

Melinda Wittstock:

How many people are you now?

Suzannah Raff:

We’re a small team, about four people. Then we also have lots of freelancers, different agencies, partners that we work with. Each partner, each retailer is a completely different set of skills that you need. Some is a lot of technology for onboarding. Some is just really old fashioned sales and reps and relationship. But I guess the same thing. Do a lot of research, know what your needs are, make sure the people you choose check off all your needs on your list. Eventually you keep persevering, you get there. Getting set up on Amazon was a challenge. Getting on to Target was a challenge, but these are all the best challenges because, once you’re there, that’s where you need to be.

Melinda Wittstock:

So what’s next for you? What are the biggest things? We all are aware of the supply chain issue, sourcing materials, factories around the rest of the world that are either closed or whatnot. So take me through the supply chain thing. Where’s the biggest problem or challenge hitting you right now and how are you getting around that?

Suzannah Raff:

So the truth is the biggest challenge and problem has been the biggest challenging problem from the beginning. It’s just gotten a little bit worse. A lot of our packaging comes from China. What I’m really working on now is trying to find alternatives that are in North America. We already have our zero waste plastic free deodorant bars, which means that we’re not relying on waiting for our plastic containers to get made and shipped from China because shipping things from China, and it’s only going to get worse now with the gas prices going up, but there have been such shipping delays the last, oh my gosh, six to 12 months.

Definitely recently with the price of gas going up, I think it’s only going to get even more and more challenging. So what we’re doing as a company is really looking to get out of China and trying to have as much made of our packaging, our product are all made in North America. We would never make a personal care product in China.

It’s all because the quality ingredients, with huge high level quality control, it’s all filled in made in the USA. But our actual plastic components are made in China. That’s a big challenge, between tariffs and what it costs and the length of time it takes to ship them. We’re looking to find just much more sustainable solutions. So we have a zero waste plastic free deodorant bar and that doesn’t rely on any packaging from China. It’s wrapped in compostable wax paper that’s made in the USA. It comes in an FSC certified paper board box that’s made in the USA. So, that is like fully American. So it is such a sustainable eco conscious product because you’re not shipping hundreds of thousands of containers from China. Just the gas and what’s-

Melinda Wittstock:

Not only that, but just the plastics problem we have.

Suzannah Raff:

Of course, yes.

Melinda Wittstock:

I’m excited to hear you talk about the kind of renewable packaging part of things because gosh, the world needs more companies to think like you’re doing right now in terms of how can we get rid of all this plastic waste. I mean, there’s so much of it.

Suzannah Raff:

Right, exactly. So, that was our first solution is our zero waste deodorant bars. That I think requires a lot of consumer education of do we really need plastic for our deodorant? Are we willing to give up that experience of a plastic component? We have ours hand dipped in wax. So you’re holding it on the wax side and your fingers don’t get dirty, but it’s still in a bar it’s so it’s really, really fully sustainable plastic free zero waste. It’s available on Target.com. Target is a really big champion of zero waste and sustainability, so they really love our deodorant bars.

So that’s a first step, and we’re continuously looking in that supply chain of waste to keep going forward and make everything as sustainable as possible, whether it’s going to be refillable or going to 100% PCR, which is much more 360 in terms of really being recycled properly. Then PCR is post-consumer recycled materials, so that it’s not ending up on the ocean floors, our products.

Melinda Wittstock:

So Suzannah, do you have plans to extend your product line beyond deodorants?

Suzannah Raff:

Absolutely. That is the best part of this job is formulating and creating products. We really want to just create products that really fill a white space and fill a need. So we already have, just like we were kind of reinventing deodorant, making it super, super clean and effective, we also have reinvented body powder. It’s not only talk free, but it’s head to body product. If you remember the body powders that our grandparents used to put all over their bodies. It was kind of like a perfume and a deodorizer. So this is a body powder that you can put everywhere on your body, under your arms, between your legs, everywhere. It absorbs odor and wetness and it leaves you silky smooth and soft. It also doubles as a dry shampoo.

Then we also have charcoal cleansing bars that are you so nourishing to your skin. You don’t need to moisturize afterwards. We want to just keep creating these really, really clean, nurturing, nourishing personal care products that we’re looking at. We have most of our key ingredients. Most of our products are activated charcoal and magnesium, coconut oils and Shea butters. So we use those as the base of whatever other personal care products. So we’re looking at just head to toe nourishing body oils and moisturizers, magnesium sprays. These are a big head up of the products that we hope to launch soon. Again, products that we’re really researching and testing very thoroughly before we launch them to make sure that they really feel a need in a way that no other products out there do, and that they’re completely 100% clean, never any synthetic fragrance either.

Melinda Wittstock:

So what’s it like raising money for your product? I always like to ask all female entrepreneurs this, because we still only get 2% of the venture capital money, like 20 years on. So how have you capitalized your business? How have you brought investors into it to be able to do what you’ve done?

Suzannah Raff:

So that’s an excellent question. It’s always a challenge. There’s a few things. So in the beginning, it was boot straps friends and family, and we have some close family friends who really fell in love with the product and reached out to us, and asked if they could invest. And then they brought a bigger investment team with them, but especially with the consumer product, it’s really there’s never enough money and fundraising can be a full-time job. So it’s always a challenge. I think the irony is the longer you’re in business, the more likely you are to be able to even just get some debt in place and establish credits and be able to start funding it through bank loans. But it’s always those first couple of years where you don’t have that history of sales to be able to take out a loan off of.

So, right now we’ve been very fortunate. I think also, maybe because I’m not a 20 year old entrepreneur, I’ve been in business for many, many years. So just having an established name and reputation and relationships and business helps. I think people feel confident. They fell in love with the product. They see that this industry is shifting completely. Cleo+Coco really, I know what I’m doing as a brand founder, really creating a very solid, sustainable omnichannel business where there’s tremendous, tremendous demand. This is like a $30 billion category, personal care, and we’re improving people’s health along the way. So I’ve been fortunate in having investors come to me. But again, as you scale, those investors, aren’t enough. Then you need to find the bigger partners and you need to clone yourself. It’s full time work.

Melinda Wittstock:

I know it well being on my fifth company now, so yes. So you mentioned that you had a background in this. Is this your first business or what were you doing before?

Suzannah Raff:

So when I first came to New York, because I moved here from Montreal, Canada. I was very lucky. I got hired as the 10th employee for a voiceover P startup before. Everything is voiceover IP today, but this was before you could make a telephone call over the internet. This was the first software that allowed you to make a telephone call over the internet. So within a couple of years, we went public. We were then bought by AT&T. So I was a part of that first internet IP bubble in the late nineties. So I’ve been working in product development and technology for many, many years. I did a lot of consulting and teaching, but this was my first four way. It’s the same skillset that I did when I worked in technology product development is what I need as a CEO of a personal care brand. But this was definitely my first time actually in consumer packing goods and I’m having a ball. I love it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Your story is so similar to one of my friends, Kara Goldin, who runs Hint Water, who similarly came from a tech background. Such a similar story. I think it’s so interesting that women tend to come into entrepreneurship a little bit later in life after they’ve already really proven themselves within an industry. We’ve hired and fired, we’ve done product development, or we’ve been a CMO of something or whatever. It’s so different from that 20 year old guy in his garage, eating ramen noodles.

Suzannah Raff:

Yep.

Melinda Wittstock:

Maybe that’s why the investment community has been so slow to really understand that women just are approaching it at a different stage of their lives with different skill sets, but actually a higher … all the data shows this, a much higher propensity and likelihood of success than our male counterparts. But the funding equation isn’t catching up to that data yet. So it’s interesting.

Suzannah Raff:

Wow. Yes, absolutely. Well, I would invest in a woman like me before a 20 year old male or female day.

Melinda Wittstock:

True. So I could talk to you for a lot longer, but congratulations on all your success. I think you already said all the places where your product is available. We’ll make sure that’s all in the show notes. Suzannah, just thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us.

Suzannah Raff:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s such a ball talking to you.