642 Sybil Ackerman-Munson:

Entrepreneurs are, by definition, problem solvers. We create businesses that create value by innovating solutions to improve lives. We can all take that a step further by leveraging our businesses with a mission to make an impact on the world – with a new way of doing business that also addresses the planet’s most intractable problems. My guest today – Sybil Ackerman-Munson – has made it her mission to help companies, large and small, leverage philanthropy as a core part of their operations.

MELINDA

Hi, I’m Melinda Wittstock, 5-time serial entrepreneur and founder-CEO of the social podcast app Podopolo, and here on Wings of Inspired Business, we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies, and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams – and make the world a better place just by being the true you.

Today I talk with Sybil Ackerman-Munson about how entrepreneurs have the opportunity to solve major global challenges. Sybil has decades of experience in philanthropy, helping companies and major donors contribute more than $45M to major initiatives. Sybil  offers guidance to individuals, entrepreneurs, and businesses seeking to do their good, redistribute wealth, all while carrying on their financial legacy. Last month she launched a new course about charitable giving called Crack the Code. We’re going to get into that plus how and why the business world is evolving with more and more companies adopting creative social impact models.

I can’t wait to introduce you to Sybil! First…

Have you downloaded Podopolo yet? If you’re listening to this podcast right now then I know you love podcasts as much as me – and that’s why it’s time to explore the app that makes listening social and curates the ideal podcasts for you from our library of more than 4 million. Find out what everyone is talking about – join us on Podopolo today – free to download in either app store.

With more than 20 years’ experience as a nonprofit professional and foundation advisor, Sybil Ackerman-Munson now taps into her vast experience working with donors to help companies large and small give back to make the world a better place. Founder ofyou’re your Good”, she’s helped to give away over $45 million in large and small donations, and now offers companies and individuals step-by-step guides through online courses, the Do Your Good podcast, and resources that allow you to jump to the front of the line and waste no time in making a true and lasting positive contribution to the world on your terms.

Sybil says it’s possible to purposely give and make a positive impact on the world no matter how busy you are or how much money you have to give. Even $1 can make a difference, and any company can incorporate a social impact or philanthropic mission at the heart of its operations. Last month she launched a new 8-week course called Crack the Code.

Today we talk about how entrepreneurs can make a difference by making giving the heart of their companies – and much more, so let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Sybil Ackerman-Munson.

Melinda Wittstock:

Sybil, welcome to Wings.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Thank you so much for having me, Melinda. I’m just really honored to be here. I can’t wait for the conversation.

Melinda Wittstock:

Me too. I am blown away by the fact that you’ve helped people contribute over $45 million to social good causes in the aid of philanthropy. What was your motivation or the impetus that got you there?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh, I love that you’re asking this because, I mean, there are so many levels to that question, but I worked in the nonprofit world for years, and then one of the donors who had been funding my work, he came to me and he said, “Do you want to run my foundation, giving money away?” I said, “Heck yeah.”

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s fun giving money away, isn’t it? I mean, you know?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

That’s what I thought. I was like, “Yeah. No kidding.” I was like, “I would love to. What are you… This is great.” I had no idea how hard it was to give money away. Once I did it though, once I went over to that world, and started doing it… I’ve been helping donors now give money away for over a decade. I realized really quickly that to be a person who is of wealth to give money well, to do it in a way that has passion and purpose, and that you care about as a donor over time, so you keep doing it and don’t just buy that yacht, but instead actually put a lot of your money into doing good and helping with social change and social cause, it takes a lot of thought and a lot of care.

So, for many years, I’ve been toiling away in obscurity behind the scenes, helping nonprofits connect with these wealthy individuals. I process and work with over 150 to 200 proposals a year, and I work right now with many, many, many trustees and donors, talk to them all the time about what they’re interested in. What I found is that there are some key things that both the nonprofits and the donors, since I work with so many of them, are doing, and some of them are doing these things well, and some of them aren’t. That’s why I created my business because I was like, “I don’t want to just be toiling away behind the scenes with all this knowledge. I want to share it to the world. I want to help more charities and more donors give and do good in the world,” and so I created Do Your Good, and became an entrepreneur.

That’s another thing, Melinda, that was so fun in my journey is I’ve worked as a nonprofit person, and I backed into having my own business because I started having more and more donors asking for me to work for them. I’m like, “I’ll create my own business.” Then I realized, “Wait, I love this. I love being a business person and creating ideas and working with donors,” and then that’s when I did Do Your Good. I was like, “I’m really an entrepreneur. I want to create my own business with courses and support so that I can really spread the word even more.” That’s where I’m at now.

Melinda Wittstock:

Let’s break down what people do that’s good when they’re doing their good, if you will, and where do they go wrong? Because I think once you have a lot of wealth, and you want to give it, it’s, “Okay, where? Where is it going to be most impactful? Where is it going to be most effective?” Talk to me about where it goes really well for people and where there’s a struggle, because it sounds like it’s the easiest thing in the world to give money away.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

It does, and it really should be, but it’s not. It’s really hard. I think if you talk to folks… I’m guessing, Melinda, you as well have probably had a journey like this where you’re like, “I really want to do good in the world, and it’s not always so simple.” Once you start saying, “I care about an issue,” you start looking at it, and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, this issue is so big.” Even if you have tons and tons of money, how can I even begin to make a difference? That kind of thing, right?

Melinda Wittstock:

Right, and you start to think, “Okay, so of all these different charities working in the space or perhaps B corporations,” increasingly, a lot of entrepreneurs’ for-profit businesses have really great social impact missions, so, “Where’s my money going to be most effective? Where am I going to have the maximum impact and lift?”

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

So let’s talk about that a little bit. The first question you asked was how can people… What are the good things? How can you do it well? Then that links into the mistakes people make. But the first, most important thing in the whole world seems really obvious, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had new clients come to me and make this mistake. The first most important thing is to go on a retreat with yourself. Take time, a long weekend or any amount of time you need to think about what it is you care about. No judgment, okay? Because a lot of times, before a client of mine or anybody I work with that has wealth decides they want to give money, they say, “Well, what’s the big weighty issue that we should be leaning into?”

And they start trying to lean into what they think other people think they should fund, because especially if they’re a person of wealth and other people know about it and they start pitching them like crazy, they’re like, “Oh,” and, “We should be doing this.” No. No. No. My first thing that I suggest is take away all judgment. Don’t feel like you have to change the entire world in one day, and sit with yourself and meditate about. First, I have four key things for you to think about. First, what’s your typical week? Write it down. What do you just do every day? It’s okay if… Again, no judgment. Anything you do. You go on long walks. You do this and that. It doesn’t have to be some big weighty thing. You don’t have to be volunteering every day. It’s fine. What’s your typical week?

The next thing I want you to ask yourself, “What are the hobbies that you already do? What are the things that you gravitate towards that give you joy, that fill you up with hope?” Those are the hobbies. The fourth thing is what are the activities that make you happy in general? It might be something that you do in your typical week. It might be your hobbies, but it also might be a special place you go every year that gives you rejuvenation or anything. It might be going to visit your kid in college. I’m thinking about that, because I’m sending off some kids to college right now, and my husband and I are thinking about how we’re going to be traveling around and seeing them and how much enjoy that’ll give us.

That’s the third thing. So then the last thing is what keeps you up at night? What’s the challenge? What are the worries that you have in your life? Those are the four things that I think are going to be the bedrock things that then help you figure out what you want to give your money away to. I can guarantee you that if you start writing these down, you’ll start realizing, “Oh, there’s some do good, helpful charity that can help me overcome the thing I worry about at night that’s linked to some of these hobbies on a typical week, and things I’m doing.”

Melinda Wittstock:

What a beautiful connection you’ve made there, because I think so many people actually feel powerless. They look at the world, and there’s a lot of stuff to worry about. There’s a lot of stress. There’s a lot of fear. There’s a lot of problems that just don’t seem to be being solved by anyone. And if it keeps you up at night, doing something proactive about it, gosh, you’re doing something proactive about it, but you’re also making yourself good. It’s a mindset thing in a way.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Totally. Totally. What you’ll see is if you do some journaling about these four key things, your typical week, your hobbies, activities that make you happy and what keeps you up at night, if you journal about that, you’re going to probably have a whole lot of different things, right? But what’s going to happen is you’ll start seeing a through line to all of those things. So one or two things, that’ll be your typical week hobbies, activities that make you happy and what you worry about. There’ll be one or two key things. For me, it’s climate change issues. They link into all, so I do this exercise on myself. I actually have a little special mini course where I help people think through this, and I do it on myself.

What I’ve found is that it’s climate change and youth, because I’m so connected with my family, and I’m worried about the next generation, and so I ended up giving a donation to a youth group working on climate change, but I had to do the exercise even on myself, and I’m an expert at this stuff. It’s really helpful. If you’re a person who is a very successful business woman, and you’re really focused on… I mean, if you’re a successful business woman, you are doing amazing. Hats off to you. You might be surprised, though, if you do this exercise, and I’ve done this with my clients who are successful business people. What they end up giving to ends up being different from what they’ve worked on in their corporate life or in their business life, because it’s connecting them to who they are in a very different and personal way.

That’s different also from corporate giving, so corporation. You might be giving through your company as well, but I would suggest that in order to really inspire you to keep giving and to love what you do, answering these four questions is key. The other thing that’s cool about it is a lot of times, if you’ve honed in on something that has a through line to those four things, then you probably have friends, coworkers, colleagues, others that also care about the similar issue, so you can go have coffee with them. You can get inspired by them, because what can happen too is if you just start giving money to nonprofits, and don’t do this exercise first, what happens then is that nonprofits start just hounding you for money.

Every year, you’ll just keep getting that pitch from them. They won’t really know what you like. You’ll start feeling disassociated, and over time, you’ll stop giving. At least I’ve seen that happen. But if you have it like as a community of conversation with the things that you care about, with the people you care about, the groups might be asking you for funding, but you start understanding where that’s coming from a little bit more in a way that I don’t think you ever would if you don’t really think this through with yourself with no judgment first.

Melinda Wittstock:

How many people that you work with are really concerned not just with the giving but the actual impact, like giving to a charity that you know is actually going to be tracking and reporting, I guess, the impact of their work and working effectively and whatnot? Does that become a big issue for people?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh yeah. You have such great questions. This is number one. It’s really hard to track impact, and there’s lots of different ways to do it depending on the kind of person you are and the kind of way you process information. But what I’ve done is I’ve tried to go up a level a little bit, and help folks with a higher level way that you can personally evaluate your giving. We can talk about that now if you’d like.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Then, of course, you can get so… I’m a total dork, so I get into all the wonky details. There are so many ways to measure impact that you could go, and a lot of my foundation colleagues have done different things, but let’s talk about it more from person to person like you and me, we’re just having a conversation. So how do you evaluate impact? I think the first thing that you as a person need to think about is it’s impossible to 100% know what your impact is, and you got to be okay with that, right? So to be humble with… Even if you have millions and millions and millions of dollars to give away, you’re not 100% ever going to know really what you’ve done.

That’s because the problems and the issues that we are working on and working through, gosh, even the women who are the people who helped women to get to vote in this country, in the United States, many of them didn’t live to see the results of their efforts, right? I always keep myself thinking about those kinds of things when I’m thinking about impact. There’s a certain part of it where you just have to have faith that the charities you’re giving to are working on such amazing stuff that as long as you’re supporting good people to do good works, and you’re giving in a way where you’ve really been true to who you are and what you care about, good things are going to happen.

But I’m going to get off the woo-woo side now, and I’m going to go into the practical. All right, but you do still want to track some things and make sure things are in line. The way to go about this from a higher level is the thing I don’t want you to get stuck in a trap of is doing what I call alphabetical order grant-making, and that is you are giving to groups every year, and you have this little spreadsheet, or even in your mind, a little sheet of information where you’re like, “Okay, I’m giving to A group, B group, C group,” and by the time you get to the group that’s at X, you’re so exhausted. It’s like, “I don’t even really care.” I mean, look at it alphabetically.

Instead of doing that, what you do first is you think about the issues you care about, so is it houselessness? Is it education reform? Is it climate change? It can be anything you care about. Write that down. Just one or two words like climate change, education reform, any issue you care about. It can be local. Again, no judgment. It can be anything, but you just write just the words down. That’s the first thing you do. Then the second thing you do is underneath each issue, you write a couple things. The first thing is what is the short-term impact that I expect my grants to make? At the end of each year, what will make me super excited about this grant or donation that I’ve given? That’s the first thing, short term, just thinking the next year.

And then the next thing you write… They’re only in one sentence, one or two sentences. The next thing you write is, “What overall big picture would I love to see happen in this issue I’m caring about?” Write that down. That’s long term, five, 10, 20 years, maybe even longer. Write that down, and put that underneath. So let’s say, for example, you care about climate change, and then in the short-term this year, you’re really worried about specifically how is the automobile industry going to transition to using electric energy instead of fossil fuel energy? Let’s say that’s something you care about. You can write that down, and this next year, I want to see how that happens.

Then in the long-term, you can say, “Over the long-term like five to 10 years, what I care about is how is our whole society going to change from a fossil fuel-based economy to a renewable economy, that kind of thing?” You can put anything issue you care about, so those are the important things. Only after you’ve done those two things would I then recommend you go back and look at all the grants and donations you’ve given to, and then you put each nonprofit in those categories, underneath climate change or houselessness or any issue you care about.

You say, “Okay, X group, I’m funding…” Let’s say it’s climate solutions, which is a group working on climate change. You put it into your section over here. The reason that I suggest this is you might be surprised, and this happens to me a lot. I make myself do this kind of exercise for most of my clients. I work with them on that, and we do something that’s a little more extravagant, which is called a whole docket, so I write big papers for them sometimes, all this stuff. But if you’re doing it on your own, you don’t have to do it in a complex way, but what does happen is doing this exercise gets you to then say, “Oh, wait, there’s a group I really like, but it’s not really fitting the issue I care about enough,” and so it might end up allowing you to focus it more.

It always happens with me. When I go through this exercise, I’m like, “Oh, there’s a group I really love, but actually, they don’t really fit the focus area of my client, and there’s another group that they are funding. Maybe we should actually give them more money because they are the one that’s really leaning into the issue the client cares about,” because a lack of focus can get you less inspired over time. That was a lot of stuff to talk about, Melinda. Please, ask me questions. I get so excited about all this stuff.

Melinda Wittstock:

I love the framework that you’re putting this into, because for most people, it’s kind of spray and pray, and it’s not necessarily attached to their own inner compass, I guess, if you will in terms of what’s the legacy that we want to leave in our lives. One of the things I’ve noticed with entrepreneurs, and I think with a lot of people is like, “Okay, I’ve got to make my nut first. I’ve got to get my company to exit, or I’ve got to make X amount of money, and then I’ll give.” There’s a lot of people waiting to give when they could have an impact now, because even a dollar or $5, we’re…

Because we’re talking with you, and [inaudible 00:18:04] $45 million. It doesn’t have to necessarily be a huge sum of money. Small amounts of money can be very, very meaningful, and we don’t necessarily have to wait for that big exit in our companies.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Exactly, Melinda. I have that number there, right? But the thing is is that’s over many years, and really, my niche is to work with small and medium-sized foundations and also individuals that may only have a smaller amount to give, but to really do it as effectively as possible. You can have such an impact no matter how much money you have to give away. It just depends on focus to me. If you have a smaller amount, and I don’t like saying small really, but if you have not as much as the multi-multi millions, you can really make a difference if you’re focusing in your local community, for example, and you can combine that with volunteer time.

Now, I’m saying all this, though, when I’m also starting a business, right? I’m an entrepreneur, and I am so busy building my business, and stressed out about it honestly like, “Oh my gosh, is this going to work? Is it not going to work, and how do I make it effective,” and all those kinds of pieces. The good thing is I’m just lucky because my business is all about doing good. You know what I mean? Most businesses are about doing great things that people care about and feel like there’s a need in the world, but my title of my business is Do Your Good, so at least I feel like, “Okay, well,” but still it’s a lot of other things that could get in the way of that, so I totally feel you on that.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s really true. I think there’s a lot of business owners though, too, from the entrepreneurial perspective who are starting to weave in social impact into their for-profit business models that it becomes a central driving mission. It’s not just giving a donation at the end of the year with out-of-your-profit margins or however you look at it, or putting a thing up on your website about your mission and the charities you support, but actually working this into the business model right from the get-go. You’re measuring yourself not only by how much money you’re making or depending on the type of business have different KPIs, but what kind of social impact that you’re driving.

Is this something that folks are getting more and more interested in in terms of how the for-profit world can really be making an impact, how a business owner listening to this podcast right now can make an impact not only personally, but via their own businesses?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh yes. Yes. Well, you mentioned the B Corp work. That’s critical. I don’t think we can get into that as much here now, but I’m sure that you’ve talked with experts who are thinking about that piece, but the important thing about corporate giving is I am a person who works for donors, and we collaborate with companies who are doing amazing work in the giving sphere, and both… They’re donating some of their profits, but not only that, they have entire staff devoted to giving money away from their corporation. The two that stand out the most to me that I’ve worked with are Patagonia and REI. They do it really, really well.

Melinda Wittstock:

It was always central to their very mission right from the get-go. It was built into their business model from day one. I mean, like Ben and Jerry’s similar.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

First, we should talk high-level… The thing that I’m thinking about right now, though, around the most effective corporate givers, they actually have staff dedicated to the work. The staff at Patagonia that work on the foundation side, they are my colleagues. We compare notes. They work really closely with all different types of donors to help make sure things move. Same with REI, they have a special arm of folks that thinks about it. Now, if you’re a company, if you’re running a company that’s much smaller where you can’t hire staff necessarily, and you might say, “Wait a minute, how do we do this?” There’s great examples.

I’ve talked with and worked with other companies who may not have whole arms of their business that have philanthropic giving, but what they do is then they work within their company to think about in a similar way that I just talked about personally, if you’re giving personally where you think about your typical week hobbies, activities that make you happy and what keeps you up at night, with companies, what they do is they look at their typical week like, “What is their company actually all about? What is it doing?” No judgment there, right? But what is it doing? Hobbies, instead of hobbies, what the company is thinking about is their employees and their staff and the folks that are doing things in their company.

What is it that the company is really interested in? They might be doing already volunteer work for tree plantings or other key things. Maybe the staff are already saying, “Oh, let’s go do this and this. Let’s work on houselessness.” They might be doing lots of cool stuff with the local food bank. Really look into that. See what the staff are doing. Then also with the company that… You are probably working in an area where there’s something that does keep you up at night and makes you concerned in terms of maybe there’s a regulatory program or other things where you feel like, “Hmm, if we could just do X, Y, Z, then we could be more environmentally conscious, or we could really support as a company ending houselessness.”

You name it. Plug it into whatever you care about, but those kind of activities are still really helpful. That’s why Patagonia and REI, I think, are so effective. Not only because they have staff, but also because the things they’re working on are directly linked to the core mission of their company.

Melinda Wittstock:

I think that’s right. I mean, how I look at it on business number five, Podopolo.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

That’s great, Melinda. Business number five, can we just… Hats off to you.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, so number five is a podcasting app and platform that makes podcast listening social, and it really creates conversation around-

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Cool. I totally want to check that out. I’m definitely going to.

Melinda Wittstock:

Thank you. A really personalized listener experience allows podcasts to make money from their content and whatnot, but woven into it is a social impact mission that we’ll see expressed in the app over the coming weeks and months as we roll those features out, but most podcasts have a mission, and when people are engaging… Imagine this, you mentioned climate change before, so say you’re listening to a climate change podcast. You’re really engaging with it, and all of a sudden it’s like, “Congratulations. We just planted 100 trees for you.”

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Cool.

Melinda Wittstock:

That’s what we’re going to do. It’s going to be central to that because a social platform, I mean, there’s a lot of things wrong with social media where it devolves into the negative and the banal and worse. What can we do to not only encourage giving, but it also makes people feel good to do that? As a company, we’re committed to actually tracking those outcomes as a result of what we’re building and the engagement we’re driving as much as we look at things like engagement metrics or how many downloads we have or how many listens we have, or what are our profit margins? You know what I mean? It’s a very different way, and I’ve been thinking about this for a long time.

Every company has a different way that they can weave that into their actual model in such a way that it’s not only your own personal giving or your company giving, but you’re actually encouraging other people to do it, and you’re making people feel good about it. You’re giving them that dopamine hit anyway of having done that.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Melinda, can I talk about something around this? This is a lot more personal than just the five steps or whatever.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

There’s something in my personal journey of being an entrepreneur, and you just sparked this by your conversation. My life, I grew up with academics, and then I went and worked in the nonprofit world. I was an idealist. Not sort of, I really was an idealist. At the time when I was younger, I was like, “Okay, you either are a nonprofit kind of person or you’re a for-profit company business person.” Never that two will ever mix. If you’re a for-profit company person, how could you possibly be wanting to do the do-good stuff? And if you’re a nonprofit person, people were proud of making no money, and like [crosstalk 00:27:18].

Melinda Wittstock:

Right. It is a badge of honor to be poor.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh my gosh, I know. Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s weird, right?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Badge of honor to be poor, and I was really poor. In this journey, I’m now 51, right? I own that proudly, 51. This journey has really taught me that no, it’s not either or. I can have a for-profit business, be proud of the fact that I’m a successful business woman, and have my business give back to the world, but it’s still a struggle like, “Okay, so how much do I give? What do I do?” Even though, like I said, my business is called Do Your Hood, how do I do it? I guess what you were saying sparked that in me. I love though that you’re thinking about that with your new business. Well, not your new… You’ve done… This is your fifth one, but many people are.

They’re saying, “Okay, we don’t have to have one or the other. Let’s do good and do business at the same time.” It’s not only about donations like, “How do you give your funding away effectively?” It’s also about how do you weave that effectiveness into everything you do, and then give back to the nonprofits doing great work?” I just love that.

Melinda Wittstock:

It’s so important. I mean, this is funny. One of my companies way back was a nonprofit.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh, cool.

Melinda Wittstock:

I remember we were on this constant, constant thing writing grant applications, and basically begging for money. It put you into a scarcity mentality, and this thing that somehow money itself was bad, and all money is an exchange of energy. I mean, an exchange of value for value. It’s just a marker of exchange. That’s all it is, but money itself gets so loaded. We have all these money stories and all these kinds of things, and there are a lot of people out there who think they can only… that money’s bad, and they can only do good by not having money. However, it’s the money that helps with all these different impacts, right? So it’s such a strange… It’s a very odd and loaded thing, right?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Right, and here’s the thing. As I started my business, I really focused on… You’re focusing it on a particular person. I’m focusing on my business supporting successful business women who want to give money away effectively. Those are the people I’m talking to with my business, right? As I move forward on that, I realized though that I also can support the nonprofits in how to have a voice that’s not just the grind of one thing after another and thinking in terms of scarcity. I’m also creating a special mini course for nonprofits to help them talk about their work from a place of abundance and to try to help them get out of that grind, because it’s all too good to help nonprofits be able to be more effective at getting funding and articulating that amazingness that they are.

They’re just such great people, and they’re doing such good work. It can really get to be a problem if they’re thinking about it from just like, “How do we raise our minimum amount and just keep on the grind and not think about big opportunities and get burnt…” They will get burnt out then.

Melinda Wittstock:

No, it’s really, really true. Again, in the company standpoint, in the entrepreneur standpoint, there’s a lot that people can do right now. They don’t have to wait. You don’t have to be a big company, but I imagine the exercise that you described for an individual, that’s something a company team could go through-

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Exactly.

Melinda Wittstock:

… together as well to really figure out what that impact… where they’re going to make a difference as a company.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Exactly. The other thing when I’ve worked in colleagueship, we fund together. When I’ve worked with companies, we fund together with my clients. The other thing that a company is super effective at is if they have really gotten clear on how they want to fund in the world, so are they really focused on as a company trying to change a societal norm that they think is a real problem like houselessness or climate change, or are they more interested in really the field building exercise of there’s an issue that they care about, but they want to get down in the nitty gritty, and plant trees and do that kind of thing?

Those are two very different approaches, and they’re both really effective and important. That would be the kind of thing that I’d suggest a company come together with their leaders, and especially if it’s a smaller company, and they can really talk about how do they want to approach the giving that they’re doing. I divide givers into three different categories. The first category is a sustainer kind of giver, and that’s a giver that is somebody who really wants to do tree plantings and support groups that are out there doing the good work on the ground on a day-to-day basis. They love the nonprofit. They love what the nonprofit’s doing. That’s a sustainer kind of giver.

A campaigner giver is more of the kind I was talking about more like Patagonia and others who they see a major societal norm that needs to change like on climate change or other things, and so their funding to push levers and move things forward and break through. So for example, with climate change, a major societal norm right now is people drive cars using fossil fuels. But in order for us to really tackle climate change, the society needs to change probably to use electric cars, right? That’s a big change. So if the company says, “Okay, well, we really want to have that change happen,” then they’re going to have to fund as what I call a campaigner kind of funder.

They’re going to fund groups that are doing that. They’re not funding groups as much that are doing tree plantings and stuff. Rather, they’re funding groups that are focused on electrifying the transportation sector, which is changing a societal norm, or if the company really is interested in launching new things, they see a gap in something they care about, and they want to actually fill that gap. Then it’s almost like they’re venture capitalists of the nonprofit world. They’re saying, “Oh my gosh, let’s find some really great innovative people who are working on houselessness, for example,” and they see a big gap in that like, “There’s not enough beds in this particular community where our major company is housed, and we want to help build a whole facility for folks to help them get off the streets.”

That’s a gap they want to fill, so they’re launching that whole thing, and they’re finding the expertise and the nonprofits to help move it forward. Again, I divided it up into three different categories there, and the company can really think about whether they want to do sustaining funding, campaigning funding, or launching funding. The reason I feel like it’s so important for folks to get a good feel for the way they want to fund is if you do it where you’re mixing the three up a little bit, then you actually can be very ineffective, because then no one really knows how to approach you as a company.

None of the nonprofits know how to talk to you, because the tree planting groups will be like, “Come and support us for tree planting,” and you’ll be like, “No, the real thing is we want to change a major societal norm, and we need to electrify the transportation sector. What do you guys do in planting trees?” That creates a lot of tension, so it’s always good to have that internal conversation first, and then reach out to the nonprofits about how you want to go.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yes, absolutely. Where do you see this going and your works? It’s so fascinating that in giving, you gone into entrepreneurship yourself, so you have this business helping people give, which I think is awesome. Where do you see it going over time? What are the next steps?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

First of all, I am loving what I’m doing. This is so great. I’m 110% committed to doing this, so where I see this going is I am going to create, and I am creating. I have created. I’m launching this fall courses, online courses in bite-sized chunks all about this stuff for donors and for nonprofits. I’m developing all that now, and they’re all going up in the next two to three months, so that’s super exciting. That’s the first thing that I’m doing is I want this core book of information for folks, donors and nonprofits. I’m also just starting up on my weekly podcast. I started in November, so I’m on episode 40. Woo-hoo.

Melinda Wittstock:

Fantastic. That’s wonderful.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

I’m interviewing donors and nonprofits about these kinds of strategies. I’m having so much fun with it, and I’m also doing something that I call Sybil Speaks, where I’ll have a… My clients are my inspiration, so right now, I also have many, many one-on-one clients, right? They’re my inspiration. They’ll be working through a problem, and I’ll be like, “Oh, let me talk about it on my podcast,” so I’m helping people figure through that. My goal would be to have a podcast that’s significant and big and really matters for this field so that I can help people, so I really want to develop that podcast.

My online courses and my podcasts are the two core things that I want to see move forward. I give away a lot of free content, but I, of course, will have to charge people for some of it because that’s over time how I want to sustain myself and my work. That’s how I see it. I mean, I just love these things. It’s such a creative… It’s funny. It’s so creative, and it’s just bringing all the things I love together. I also, of course, will keep some of my one-on-one clients. I love talking to people one-on-one, and helping them move forward, but this podcast work and these online courses are just super fun and interesting for me to do.

Melinda Wittstock:

Sybil, I want to make sure that everybody knows the best place to find you, listen to your podcast and work with you. What’s the best way?

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Great. It’s really easy to find me. I’m at www.doyourgood.com. I’m also on Instagram and Facebook with the handle Do Your Good, and all the… I mean, you can find my podcast pretty much everywhere that you listen to podcasts. Either type in Do Your Good or my name, Sybil Ackerman Munson. I’m definitely going to check out your new Podopolo app, and try to get on there because [crosstalk 00:38:49] fun.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely. Well, you’re already on there. So anybody listening to this that has a podcast, you are one of our more than four million podcasts that we automatically ingest into the app.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Nice.

Melinda Wittstock:

When you download the app, all you have to do is just claim your podcast.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Cool.

Melinda Wittstock:

And as you claim your podcast and with all the features and whatnot, you start to get all the ways that you can engage and know and understand who’s actually listening and what they care about and much more besides including monetization opportunities, so definitely download it. Check it out. Play around with it. We’ve got so many new features coming as well, but it’s really a way for podcasters to really engage in conversation with people that they know are listening. It’s really going to take podcasting from 1.0 as we see it right now into 2.0 and beyond, so I appreciate that a lot.

When podcasters come in, we also really work hard to promote the podcast, so you can be discovered by more people.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh, that’s wonderful, Melinda. I have to say just a couple sentences on that because the podcast world… I decided to do podcasting because I love talking about things and talking about the issues I care about, and I’m finding all these wonderful people in the podcast world. I mean, it’s just a great grassroots world of people with ideas, so I’m really glad that you’re helping us all. Thanks a lot for that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Well, thank you, and thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Sybil Ackerman Munson:

Oh, it’s been a delight.