635 Victoria Kennedy:

Making a buying decision is all about trust. So who are you more likely to trust? A company shouting “me me me” or a business or brand that that has many independent voices – in articles, podcasts, reviews, social media – singing its praises?

…Yes, you already know intuitively what my guest today Victoria Kennedy is talking about.

MELINDA

Hello and I hope you’re doing great and ready to fly with me today. If you’re new here, I’m Melinda Wittstock, 5 time serial entrepreneur and founder-CEO of the social podcast app Podopolo, and on Wings of Inspired Business I share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies and practical advice from successful female founders … so you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I do this podcast because I believe women entrepreneurs all soar higher when we lift as we climb!

So today we meet a former opera singer turned PR maven who helps companies and individuals leverage digital PR to increase their visibility and directly grow their revenue.

Victoria Kennedy once sang a duet with legend, Andrea Bocelli, and along the way in her opera career she learned a lot about how to get media attention. These days she’s

the CEO of Victorious PR, a media agency that helps business owners get featured in industry-specific publications, local press, podcasts, and top publications so they can establish themselves as Industry Leaders in their fields.

Victoria herself has been featured in over 200 publications including Forbes, Entrepreneur, Yahoo Finance, TV & radio stations, and the TEDx stage.

Victoria will be here in a minute – and first…

Have you downloaded Podopolo yet? If you’re listening to this podcast right now then I know you love podcasts as much as me – and that’s why it’s time to explore the app that makes listening social and curates the ideal podcasts for you from our library of more than 4 million. Find out what everyone is talking about – join us on Podopolo today – free to download in either app store.

Now back to the inspiring Victoria Kennedy.

Victoria’s life story is anything but ordinary. From her young age, her dream was to become an opera singer – and she lived her dreams, singing all over the world, even a duet with Andrea Bocelli.

Then came time to reinvent herself – we all have those moments right? – and decided to build on something she’d learned in her opera career. Simply put, its one thing to create beautiful music, something altogether different to find an audience. And that’s how her 6-figure PR business was born.

Today we talk about the power of earned media, how to get the attention of top publications, podcasts and TV producers, and how positive PR is the foundation that makes all that marketing spend on ads more effective and less costly.

So many important insights so let’s put on our wings with the inspiring Victoria Kennedy.

Melinda Wittstock:

Victoria, welcome to Wings.

Victoria Kennedy:

Thank you so much for having me.

Melinda Wittstock:

I’ve got to start with a question that I’m most curious about, which is, how did opera singing lead you to PR?

Victoria Kennedy:

Well I feel a lot of people, they don’t start out thinking, I want to do this job that they’re currently doing. And I think during the pandemic, a lot of people had to pivot and I was one of them. So being an opera singer, I’ve always had to have strong relationships with the media or no one would publish my music. I’d be singing for my supper. So I naturally had that skill. If I wanted to get my music out there, I had to put myself out into the public eye, get my own PR, get in newspapers, people writing about me.

So it was a natural fit. I went into real estate marketing after I came back to America after my opera career in Europe. And I did real estate marketing, the pandemic hit, I started doing all this PR for real estate and we started blowing up again. The pandemic did not hurt my real estate business because I just went all in on PR for real estate. Well, my marketer friends took notice and they said, Victoria, how are you doing that? Do that for me in my niche. So I started doing PR for my marketing friends and my fellow entrepreneurs and we just sort of blew up. First year, we reached seven figures, zero paid ads, all from PR and organic methods. So I truly believe PR works. I’m really walking my walk and talking the talk.

Melinda Wittstock:

So what is the secret of PR in terms of driving traffic? So many people get into the paid spend and it gets really expensive and it’s tricky to figure out what’s converting, what’s not converting, all that kind of stuff. So let’s just start at the beginning, in terms of what the PR actually does for you there, as opposed to taking that route of advertising on Facebook, Google, et cetera.

Victoria Kennedy:did a 100% PR and that’s how I was able to grow to a million dollars in one year and so I truly believe it works. And let me explain a little bit why. PR is ultimate authority. Marketing is saying, look, everybody. Look how cool I am. And PR is having other people say, she’s really cool, trust me.

Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn’t have to be either, or. It can be and, and. It can be, you can advertise on Facebook and do PR at the same time. But for me, I just Do you see the difference of how powerful that is of you tooting your own horn, running all these ads, telling everybody how amazing you are. Whereas PR are these trusted websites, these trusted podcasts of people vouching for you, saying, this person is really credible. You should check them out. What happens is you jumpstart everybody else, whereas if somebody clicked on your ad, you’re going to have to show them that they should trust you. Whereas if they read about you in a magazine, oh, well, this magazine says you’re credible. You already are jumped above that and now they already trust you. So it’s an easier sale. And it’s immediately showcasing your credibility and authority.

Melinda Wittstock:

Absolutely. Well, it actually reinforces, I think, the ad spend. Because if you put an ad spend behind that and you have that already, it’s just going to lower your user acquisition costs. It gives credibility. It’s the social proof. So for a business that is in whatever phase, but has to drive traction, has to get either downloads or users or customers or clients or whatever. What’s the order of things? How should they start to factor in PR into their marketing?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. So the main thing, I see people who are just starting out thinking, I don’t know how to get into PR. The first thing I always say is, well, let’s take a look at how you’re showing up online. That’s always step one. A lot of people don’t think about that. They think, well, I’m running ads and I’m doing emails and this, that, and the other. And I say, yeah, well, let’s pull up your Facebook. If I pull up your Facebook right now, your LinkedIn, your Instagram, do I know what it is you do? Do you have right from the very beginning, are you telling me who you’re serving? Who are you calling out as a client?

Here’s the thing. You only have three seconds to impress somebody. When they get to your page, they’re going to make an assessment about you in three seconds. If I don’t know what you do in those three seconds, you’ve lost me as a customer. You’ve lost my business. So that’s why for PR, first thing is check how you’re showing up online. Because all of the PR efforts aren’t going to be worth anything if you don’t have the website, if you don’t have the social media that’s up to par. Because we could be sending all these articles and all these people your way from podcasts and different publications, but if they get to your site and there’s pictures of your dog and some funny names, that’s fine. But if I don’t know what you’re doing, then I’m not going to go with you. So that’s first step, is make sure that your branding is on point across all of your socials online.

Melinda Wittstock:

So that’s a really important thing. People understanding kind of what you do. So say, for instance, you’re there and all that’s kind of worked out. How do you start landing that really valuable earned media, where you’re not paying for it, but people are just writing about you. What are the steps?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. And I have some really great steps when it comes to a lot of people ask, how do I get into this? Well, here is a fun fact. On your friends list right now, you know at least five people in the media. At least five people in the media. All you have to do is start small. Make a post, say, hey, who do I know here that has a podcast that is interested in a coach or interested in a lead generation expert, whatever it is that you do. Post that.

You are going to get so many responses from your friends saying, I have a podcast or tagging so-and-so. I know so-and-so has a podcast, or I know you’d be perfect on this. Reach out to your initial friends. You have a sphere of influence who knows people. Start there. I’m telling you, put, who here has a publication in the real estate niche, in the life coaching niche, whatever it is you do, you have connections already. Start there, start with where you know, get into some smaller blogs, some smaller podcasts. From there, leverage that press to get you bigger and better press. That’s how it’s done.

Melinda Wittstock:

So, as a former journalist, I’m a recovering journalist and approached by so many companies and so many people wanting articles. And I was stunned by how many did not understand my context as a journalist. Number one, don’t call a journalist on deadline with something that’s a month away or whatever. Number two, understand what it is the journalist actually needs. How to actually help them do their jobs. So you really got to think about, who’s their audience? How is what you’re saying relevant to an audience? How does it help that journalist? And those two things are something that I’ve found, way back in the day, 90% of PR agencies even, the folks who were experts, were getting wrong. [crosstalk 00:07:53] a lot of money.

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. Just so you know, it happens at the top too, guys. I will hear it every week. I just had my PR review, well, twice a week I meet with my PR reps and I review every single one of our clients and take a look. Some of my PR reps are like, ah, I can’t get this client placed. And I’m like, well, let me take a look at your pitch, send me your pitch. Oh my gosh. I’m like, how many times do I have to tell you? It’s not about us. It’s not about you. I’m sorry to tell you, it’s not about you. It’s about how you can serve the editor. How are you serving the journalist? And I think a lot of times in PR we’re guilty of this as well, but also people who are not just pitching journalists, they think it’s all about them.

They think, wow, the journalists want to hear how awesome I am. No, the journalists do not want to hear how awesome you are. They want to hear what’s in it for their audience, their readers, their audience. If you can say, this is a great win for you because my client talks about X, Y, and Z and you write about X, Y, or Z, now they’re interested. But if go around making all about you, that’s a recipe for failure. So talk about that you’ve done your due diligence on the journalist, you know what they like to write about, you know what their audience likes to read about and pitch based on that.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. I mean, this is so important and so logical, and yet I’m stunned by how many people, first thing, you know wrong. And I think sometimes, I mean, it really requires empathy. So I’m just going to say that, I think women have a more developed empathy gene. So for a CEO and founder of a company that is a woman and I don’t know whether it’s easier or not, but we need to exercise that gene to put ourselves in the position of others. Just like you’re saying, what’s in it for them. So how do you figure that out? Should every CEO and founder be just really focusing part of their day on just developing relationships with relevant journalists, following them, understanding them? I mean, what’s the best way to go about making sure that we actually can get those pitches right?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. And here’s the thing, guys. It’s all about going where your audience is. You can’t expect your audience to come to you. If you love Instagram but your audience is on Facebook, I’m sorry, you got to get on Facebook. So a lot of people don’t hearing this because a lot of entrepreneurs, they love Facebook and Instagram, but here, I’m trying to tell you guys, journalists are on Twitter. Twitter is their platform of choice. So if you don’t have a Twitter, you need to get on that platform. Because a lot of times they will be searching hashtags. They will just literally be looking on Twitter for story ideas.

So that is a great place to start. Again, it’s not about what’s in it for you. Maybe you want them to be on Instagram, but sorry, they’re not. They’re written words. They love the written word. So they’re going to be on Twitter. So finding out where your audience likes to hang out, go on that platform. And then, like you said, start tweeting saying, hey, this is a great. If what’s trending is women CEOs, put hashtag women CEOs. I’m a woman CEO and I have this great story. I started from nothing or I’m an immigrant, whatever it is. Now, they’re more likely to find you organically just because you’ve played by their rules in their game.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. You really have to understand the rules of the game in terms of how they operate and understand kind of news cycles a little bit too. What’s hot right now or what’s not. What’s the angle. It’s always, I go back in my journalist mindset. What’s the angle that makes what you’re doing fresh or in the moment now? And the angle in September might be different from the angle in December or April. So you always have to be thinking about how you’re fresh. So when you work with your clients, what’s your process? How do you take people through this and get them to where they need to be, to be executing on all these different aspects. Are you doing all the Twitter stuff for them? Or are you assisting them to do that?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. We do everything for our clients. It’s really done for you. And we call it the victorious publicity framework. And so what we do is we start our clients, because a lot of time clients come to us and they don’t have any press whatsoever. They’ve never been in the media. And they’re just like, I am a complete newbie, but I know I need media. So we take them from unknowns and we build them up. The first thing that we do is a press release. And now you may think press releases are old school, but if you have zero press, this is a great way to get out there. Just do a simple press release, gets something on Google about you, your name, your company name, get those backlinks going. And what we do is once we’ve submitted a press release, we use that press to then go after podcasts. We use it to go after getting their profile pieces out there, we start building a casing for them.

It’s foundational. Guys, you’re not going to get into Forbes tomorrow. It doesn’t happen. You have to build your case. You have to build your credibility. So we start small, we do profile pieces, we do some podcasts. Then we get their profile pieces out there. Once we’ve really established them in the media, then we go after industry specific pieces. So that there are in real estate, we go after real estate press. If they’re in mortgage, mortgage press. If they’re in coaching, maybe lifestyle, self-development press. Going into those, really what’s their audience is actually listening to and reading, that’s going to give them the best ROI. Once we’ve done that, then you can go after the top tier press, but not until you’ve done your due diligence first.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s super, super important. So a press release is just as easy as basically, okay, so say you’re sitting there and you’re going to DIY it and you’re going to write your press release. So you go on PR Newswire or whatever and write it up. Are there any tips for that? How you do that?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. I mean, it’s just a quick soundbite. It’s literally 400 words. You always want to put your company name, your name if you can, in the headline. What it is you’re announcing. Don’t forget, press releases are an announcement. You’re announcing something special. You’ve just come out with a new coaching offer or you just came out with a new product, whatever it is, that’s what people want to hear. Make it catchy. For example, people think that it’s dead, but it’s really not. Press releases can still get picked up by some huge outlets. I’ll give you an example. One of our clients, you know how a lot of people, they don’t start doing what they’re doing. He was a real estate agent. And you think, oh, a real estate agent. And I’m like, that’s about the hook here.

And so he’s telling us his life story and he’s like, I was a NASA scientist. And I’m like, wait a minute, hold up. You were a rocket scientist? Are you kidding me right now? The thing is, you sort of need a PR person because we can’t see ourselves as other people see us. What you may think is just totally normal, a PR person is going to be like, ah-ha, that’s the hook. So we ran with this press release and we were like, former rocket scientist now sells house nails. It was, from the sky to the ground, it was something like that cool angle. And it was a press release and it got picked up by Bloomberg. Don’t sleep on press releases. If you write it right, which is just putting some hooks in there, people will pick it up.

Melinda Wittstock:

Is it important to get keywords right and all that stuff? Because I mean, ultimately it’s a search thing. So you want to stack keywords in there?

Victoria Kennedy:

Oh yeah, definitely. And so if there’s something hot going on, I don’t know, if a Tony Robbins, for example, came out with a scandal. You could say maybe, the new Tony Robbins. How my coaching program is this better than his, I don’t know. Something like that. And then people are like, ooh, because there’s scandal around him right now, so let’s pick up this person. So it’s just always knowing, what’s hot right now, what are people talking about in your specific industry? And then using that hook to get yourself out there.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. And then the other thing too is, when you think of Google SEO and paid ads and whatnot, if you have that kind of domain authority, if you do get picked up and you’re in press, you see a lot of websites that have logos as seen on or seen in, that’s super, super important. And you mentioned backlinks, so this is important. So in that press release, presumably all of these press releases these days are online. So you can have links in them and whatnot.

Victoria Kennedy:

Exactly. And that’s just going to be great because … the thing is, we live in the age of Google. And I don’t know about you guys, but even if I’m buying something, a $40 blender on Amazon, I’m reading reviews, I’m doing a search of, what’s the best blender. I mean, that’s just a $40 blender. Imagine what people are doing for your thousand dollar coaching offer or whatever it is that you sell. You better believe they’re Googling you. And if the only thing that pops up is nothing, you’re in trouble. If the only thing that pops up is your website, you tooting your own horn, you’re in trouble. Or worse, your competitor pops up for those keywords. It’s either, they’re going to find your competitor or they’re going to find you. There’s really no, it’s black and white. This is why PR is so important. You want all these other publications, if somebody puts your name in Google, saying how awesome you are, vouching for you so you don’t have to do it for yourself.

Melinda Wittstock:

So how do you work with people? Is it just a retainer? I mean, how much because PR is kind of expensive. I think a lot of people go off thinking, oh my God, I’m going to be spending 20 grand a month or whatever on PR. How does your pricing work?

Victoria Kennedy:

No, it’s actually not that bad. And we have different options depending on what, where people are. I mean, we have prices anywhere from a thousand to 100,000, dependent on where our clients are. Some people really need the whole gamut. They need Instagram verification, Facebook verification, a TEDx Talk. They need everything. And some people are like, you know what? I’m just good with a little press. Do a press release for me. So no matter where you’re at, press can help you. And it’s definitely something that you should have in your marketing plan.

Melinda Wittstock:

So it sounds like you have something for everybody. Are there any particular industries that you focus on more than others? I mean, I know that obviously you’ve got your big start in the whole real estate space, also solar and whatnot. What are some of the industries that you focus on or you feel you have the most connection with the journalists and whatnot?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. I really love working with entrepreneurs. People who want to build up their personal brand. People whose company is really based around the strength of their credibility, them as a person. And so what I to do is build up personal brands through the media. Obviously we talk about their company as well, because that’s a big part of it, but don’t sleep on the fact that people are Googling your name. And so that’s what I really help try to do with my clients, get them into proper publications that actually rank on Google. Because a lot of people don’t realize this about press is, you may have all this press, but that doesn’t necessarily mean those websites that you’ve got on rank on Google. So they will still maybe be page 20 on Google, even though you just got a publication. So, I mean, not all press is created equally. So what I like to do is really make sure that all the press I’m getting, ranks on Google, it’s relevant to the clients and it really showcases their credibility. So solopreneurs, entrepreneurs.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. No, that’s so important. It’s an interesting thing with the personal brand though because I think all CEOs do need a personal brand. Certainly in the tech space where I am. Sometimes investors look at it as, oh God, it adds an element of risk. Because it’s all about you, so when it comes to exit, if it’s all about you, that’s actually almost a black mark against you in a way. That the product has to transcend you and your personal brand. So how do you walk that line? That’s pretty much where I am. Because on one hand I’m the founder and CEO of Podopolo. It’s entirely my idea. It’s my vision, all of that. And it’s tied, to some degree, to my personal brand, but it has to stand beyond me. So how do I walk that line in the PR where you kind of have to do both a little bit?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. I’ll give myself as an example because, like I said, I always lead by example. And the first thing I did was, I built my personal brand. And I built Victoria Kennedy, she’s the PR person, that’s you want to work with. Now what happened was, it was great. I mean, look, when we reached a million dollars the first year, I’m not complaining. But what happened was, everyone said, I want to work with Victoria. And now, we have five PR reps and of course I’m still looking over everyone’s campaign, but I’m not doing their PR anymore, my PR reps are.

So now it’s a problem where, okay, now we’re transitioning from all the press being about Victoria Kennedy to now being about Victorious PR. So now I’m putting into the press this idea of, this company that is now been around for over a year, has won all these awards, done all these things, this is who you want to work with. Victorious PR. But it had to be both. I couldn’t have gotten my business to the point if I try to rely on just my business. I had to build myself up first. And now that I’ve done that, now I can switch and build my company up. Does that make sense?

Melinda Wittstock:

Definitely makes a lot of sense for a service business because a lot of folks do that. But there are so many people, certainly in the internet marketing space, I think of a lot of, kind of big names there, that it’s entirely about them. And so then it makes scaling really hard. It makes asset building really hard. So some people build these great cash businesses they’re doing really well, but when it comes time to, say they want to exit or they just want to move on, they want to do something else now. It’s really hard to sell the business.

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. And that’s why you need to really start with the end in mind. So obviously in the beginning you want to do the press about yourself because no one’s going to buy if they don’t trust you. But once you’ve done that, then you really need to transition to doing the press about your business. And that’s where I’m at and that sounds like where you’re at right now as well, where you’re doing this press of like, okay, we’ve established ourselves in the industry. We’re a great company. Now you want to do business with the company. And that’s going to be great assets. If you do eventually want to sell your business, you can show them this is all the press that the company itself has gotten. This is why, you can even charge more. You can get thousands, and I’m talking about tens of thousands of dollars more, for your company if you’ve been in the press with the company, just the company. Tens of thousands, guys. So don’t sleep on this, especially if the end in mind is to sell.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah, absolutely. It’s so important. So talk to me about your opera career. I mean it’s not every day that you meet an opera singer so that’s pretty cool. So this is what you did for kind of how long before making this transition?

Victoria Kennedy:

I mean, I’ve been seeing opera since I was 11 years old. So I didn’t know it was an anomaly when I was 11. I just thought it was like country music or pop music, anybody could sing it. And so I’ve been singing it for a while. I went to school for it. I did some operas, I did some musicals. And then I moved to Europe and I had a number one hit single of classical song I wrote myself on the iTunes chart in Europe. It went to number one in Holland, went to number two in the UK. So for two years I was touring all over Europe with my own classical music, which was awesome. I was singing in castles and cathedrals. I mean, honestly it was a fairytale, but like all fairytales, it ended very, not all fairytales end abruptly, but mine did. The government refused to renew my visa.

So I actually had to come back to America. And the thing was, is, I’d been singing my whole life. I had no skills outside of singing. I wasn’t even qualified to run a cash register at McDonald’s. I didn’t have any skills. And so I think this is something that a lot of people can relate to, when it comes to this whole pandemic, where you’re forced to pivot. A lot of people pivoted during this time. And for me, obviously this was before the pandemic, but I thought I got to do something different with my life. Nobody wants opera singers in America. These jobs aren’t growing on trees, so I need to do something different. So that’s when I really just got into real estate marketing. Because here’s a fun fact, what happens when you’re a performer and you can no longer perform anymore. You get too old. What do you do? Become a real estate agent.

So all of my friends who might have known before, now were real estate agents. So it was like, hey, can I run your ads for you? And they’re like, yeah, sure. So that’s how I got my start. That’s why I chose real estate is because I already had friends in that industry. And so I started running their ads, got some traction, got some testimonials. And then I started my real estate marketing business. Again, I knew nothing about real estate marketing, but I knew that I wanted to succeed and do well with whatever I was doing. So, I mean, we did well, we did six figures in our first nine months. Everything was going great. And then hit pandemic, hit, COVID hit. And that’s when I went all in on PR and you’ve sort of heard the rest of it.

Melinda Wittstock:

Ah, yes, exactly. So this is such an interesting journey. I mean, it shows really that all the things that we do in our lives build on one another. And I imagine opera actually taught you a lot that informs what you do with PR. So talk to me a little bit about that, because I think if we look back at our lives, we can’t connect the dots looking forward, but we can looking backwards. How does what you experienced in opera inform what you do now?

Victoria Kennedy:

Yeah. So what I did, obviously, I was a trained opera singer, I’ve done some opera. But my big thing was I wrote my own music in the classical style, very much like Andrea Bocelli or the song, Time to Say Goodbye. That’s not an opera song, it’s a classical song, but it’s a new age classical song. That’s what I like to do. But the thing was, it was so not done, that nobody knew how to define me. Nobody knew what box to put me in. So I had to constantly come up with cool angles for the media, for them to cover me because I wasn’t exactly opera. I wasn’t exactly jazz. I was this sort of hybrid classical crossover singer. So I just ran with that. I used, hey, this is like Andrea Bocelli. This is classical music for the masses. This is classical crossover. This is ‘popera’.

I had to constantly be creative to have angles for the press to want to cover me because they didn’t know what to do with me. So it’s the same when I go into PR for my clients, how can I position them that’s different? I’ll give you a great example. One of my most common clients is a white guy who’s a millionaire. No offense, but that’s kind of the most common thing in the world. Oh, you’re white. Oh, you made a lot of money. Oh wow. You are so different. That’s so hard. What am I supposed to do with that? I have 10 other clients who are white guys who made a million dollars, how am I going to make you different than everybody else? And so that’s where I think the opera and the classical really helped, where everybody has a unique story.

Everybody is special in different. How can I let the world know that this guy is different than everybody else? What is unique in his story? What happened to him that maybe he isn’t even seeing in himself that I can make and pull out and have that connection for people? Because there’s a lot of people who are life coaches or business coaches who are men and successful. Okay. How are you different than the other business coaches who are men and successful? It’s, well actually, my wife left me or I was bankrupt or you know what? I was abused as a child, whatever it is. That’s unique. There are a lot of people out there who are struggling, who’ve gone through a lot of things. Your story is unique because we can make it connect to other people who are reading this. So that’s what I really love about PR and what I think I took from the opera is just really listening to my clients, trying to find what makes them special and then showcasing that to the press.

Melinda Wittstock:

Yeah. Beautiful. So Victoria, I want to make sure that people know how to find you and work with you. What’s the best way?

Victoria Kennedy:

So our website is VictoriousPR.com. But really, I always like to say, I’m a normal human person. I love doing business and building relationships with people. If you loved this, find me on Facebook, just Victoria Kennedy. Find me on Instagram, it’s the Victoria Kennedy, I’m verified. So send me a message. Say, I have a question or I liked it, I didn’t it. Honestly, I’m a normal person and I would love to connect with you all on an individual level.

Melinda Wittstock:

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for putting on your wings and flying with us today.

Victoria Kennedy:

Thanks for having me.